VAIL SUCKS

[JoeB-Z]

Sunapee surfaces today were considerably better than Okemo's yesterday. They were blowing tons of snow with high air volume guns. Whales all over. I suppose they will wait to groom those out in view of the coming warm weather and worse. East Coast areas are in a tough spot with Christmas week on the horizon. My house is 45 minutes either way and Sunapee keeps winning despite the limited terrain.

 

[Cobbold]

To be honest, I have no idea how many more that vail can do in the nh market, kinda using asc model as guideline but maybe the doj has changed their views on this as well, who knows, but I have no idea what the vail business plan is for their next purchase, I live in wmass, so the eastern mass, nh, maine market i am not really familiar with, especially Maine, never skied Maine.

 

[Cobbold]

Sunapee surfaces today were considerably better than Okemo's yesterday. They were blowing tons of snow with high air volume guns. Whales all over. I suppose they will wait to groom those out in view of the coming warm weather and worse. East Coast areas are in a tough spot with Christmas week on the horizon. My house is 45 minutes either way and Sunapee keeps winning despite the limited terrain.

This weekend looks like a killer, last time I checked

 

[Smellytele]

Same with Pats Peak. Family-owned. I think they are on the third generation now.

Just making it to generation 2 at pats.

 

[RH29]

My personal take on the "Who will Vail eat next?" rumor mill swirling in this thread:

Sundown: I hope this isn't gonna happen. I heavily doubt that the current family ownership is interested in selling, and surely they've seen how Vail decimated similar areas.
Pats: Same as Sundown, plus joining the Indy Pass is a pretty big middle finger to Vail.
Jiminy: Not happening. They're owned by Fairbank Group, which also owns Cranmore and Bromley. All three of those areas are going strong with major real estate investment to boot. No reason for Fairbank to sell, plus I don't think Vail will get away with buying Cranmore when they already have the two other North Conway ski areas. Vail would pretty much control the town of North Conway if they had Cranmore too. This would be a blatant monopoly, and they can't worm their way out of that.

 

[MogulMonsters]

On a separate note according to the report attitash opens tomorrow on what appears to be one run from mid mtn and the learning center. Looking around at the non vail competition that's a pretty slow start. I suppose you have to hire people and make snow and stuff.

According to attitash.com "Opening Day is tomorrow, Friday, December 10th! Our snowmaking team has been making great progress and we anticipate adding more terrain in the coming days. For Friday, we are planning on spinning the Flying Yankee and the Learning Center Triple, with a terrain park located on lower Spillway."

I'm going to say they have three runs -
Learning Center
Far Out (it has to be open to get off the Yankee)
and Spillway

 

[RH29]

Bonus edition: Who do I think Vail is most likely to buy?

For Resort-Based: Holiday Valley or Bretton Woods
For Feeder Hill: Powder Ridge

 

[thebigo]

I doubt they target any additional properties in northern new england, they dont even appear to want all the ones they already have. Eastern canada is an obvious hole in their portfolio; if there are any small busy independent feeders near toronto, montreal or quebec city - look out.

Please do not even mention pats in the sentence as vail, pats is everything that is still right about skiing.

 

[kendo]

Yep. Doubt they're looking for more in NH.

They're looking for incremental growth by filling in the holes around untapped major MSA's (population centers).




This week it's Pittsburgh.

Next I'd say is western NY with 2.5M people within the Buf / Roch / Syr region.

Also Montreal stands out as a potential target.

(... we need a major storm to get us off this topic!)

 

[eatskisleep]

I think they are done in nh, For the most part, how many resorts can you own in a single state before the doj gets involved? I could see their interest in Breton woods or Waterville valley, but if they buy one of them do they have to sell one they already own?

Why would anti trust stop them? It’s clear it’s not slowing down the likes of Amazon? It’s a free for all right now.

 

[Cobbold]

Bonus edition: Who do I think Vail is most likely to buy?

For Resort-Based: Holiday Valley or Bretton Woods
For Feeder Hill: Powder Ridge

Where’s powder ridge?

Why would anti trust stop them? It’s clear it’s not slowing down the likes of Amazon? It’s a free for all right now.

antitrust made them sell abasin and asc had to sell two places in nh, just stating what happened in the past

 

[drjeff]

I am kind of surprised that nobody has thrown Mountain Creek and/or Big Snow into this fantasy game of mega pass CEO buying spree yet

 

[drjeff]

Where’s powder ridge?

Powder Ridge is in CT not too far off of I-91 about half way between Hartford and New Haven

 

[jaytrem]

NC is a big hole. Sugar or Beech would not surprise me. Lots of potential customers with $$$$ from Charlotte/Raleigh and everything in between. Wintergreen VA also seems to be their style.

 

[snoseek]

Bonus edition: Who do I think Vail is most likely to buy?

For Resort-Based: Holiday Valley or Bretton Woods
For Feeder Hill: Powder Ridge

I feel like omni doesn't want to sell bretton woods at any point. Why would they?

 

[drjeff]

I feel like omni doesn't want to sell bretton woods at any point. Why would they?

That entire Mount Washington Resort, from Bretton Woods to the Resort Hotel to the Golf Course and surrounding network of year round, mutli-sport trails, is a solid year round operation that Omni has spent a bunch of $$ upgrading since they bought it

 

[thetrailboss]

To be honest, I have no idea how many more that can do in the nh market, kinda using asc model as guideline but maybe the doj has changed their views on this as well, who knows, but I have no idea what the vail business plan is for their next purchase, I live in wmass, so the eastern mass, nh, maine market i am not really familiar with, especially Maine, never skied Maine.

Anti-Trust at the DOJ in the mid 1990's versus now could not be more different. Biden is now more anti-merger and anti-trust, but with Bush they pretty much stopped doing anti-trust work.

If I recall exactly with ASC, the argument was that the Northern New Hampshire market was under ASC's control and needed to be trust-busted.

It is also interesting to note that Boyne has a firm grip on ME's ski market. I wonder if that could have happened in the 1990's.

 

[thetrailboss]

Please do not even mention pats in the sentence as vail, pats is everything that is still right about skiing.

I completely agree. Glad to hear that not much has changed since my brief two seasons there.

 

[Cobbold]

Powder Ridge is in CT not too far off of I-91 about half way between Hartford and New Haven

Ok thanks

 

[ss20]

I am kind of surprised that nobody has thrown Mountain Creek and/or Big Snow into this fantasy game of mega pass CEO buying spree yet

My first thoughts as well.

If you look at a map Thunder Ridge would be very logical in the next takeover. Lot's of families with money who go west every year already. Train from Grand Central to Patterson. I never thought it would happen because the infrastructure was falling apart but that is quickly being turned around. I will pray it never happens though. I didn't see it as a possibility when I started there but I can see it now.