VAIL SUCKS

[Kingslug20]

Lets face it..its all corporate BS talk...they aren't going to load anything more efficiently except the BS they spew when questions..that have no answers..are answered.
Its not just the " chair loading" issue..its going to be the crowding issue on the slopes ( which we are all a part of) and the parking and restaurants. They have made a product that once cost X..now costs Y...
My only saving grace is now I can ski week days. Weekends are going to be a shit show..and thats that.

 

[abc]

To be fair, the increase in pass sale figure is compared to last year. So it makes sense to compare uplift capacity to last year. In that case, yes, once the chairs are back to fully filled, it might not be so bad.

For me though, I'm less concerned about the wait in lift line. More concerned about crowded slopes.

And yet..here I am an Epic pass holder because..its cheap.

I've also got an Epic pass this year because it's cheap. But that's a combination of the carryover credit from the pandemic early closure on top of the 20% discount. If its just the 20% discount, I may or may not take the bait.

If they don't offer the 20% next year? I'm jumping ship 100%

 

[ctdubl07]

And 2 million Epic passes sold this year, before anyone even odrers a burger and fries and signs little Sally or Johnny up for rentals and lessons, certainly helps pad the war chest and makes the balance sheet look solid cash flow wise.

Plus with the extra 500k plus Epic passes they sold this year apparently, gotta find some more acres and lifts to put many possibly 1st time ever passholders, on to keep them satisfied with their purchase and wanting to re-up next season

This is going to get interesting over the next few years to see how they handle so many factors in play

Doc, all 4 of our kids are in season long programs (8 yrs now) and eat sh*t burgers/nuggets each day plus and our 6 Epic passes. Im the one paying for the 2 new lifts next year....

 

[cdskier]

To be fair, the increase in pass sale figure is compared to last year. So it makes sense to compare uplift capacity to last year. In that case, yes, once the chairs are back to fully filled, it might not be so bad.

It depends which numbers you're talking about. There's a 47% increase in sales compared to last year, but it is a 76% increase in sales compared to 2 years ago (when they were operating at full/normal lift capacity). That's substantial...

Moving on to season pass results, Lynch said, "Pass product sales for the North American ski season increased approximately 47% in units and approximately 21% in sales dollars through December 5, 2021 as compared to the period in the prior year through December 6, 2020, without deducting for the value of any redeemed credits provided to certain North American pass holders in the prior period. Pass product sales through December 5, 2021 for the 2021/2022 North American ski season increased approximately 76% in units and approximately 45% in sales dollars as compared to sales for the 2019/2020 North American ski season through December 8, 2019, with pass product sales adjusted to include Peak Resorts pass sales in both periods.

 

[TyWebb]

First year with any pass (epic) for my son and I. 3 trips for Vt booked already plus researching out west for late Feb early March. Jack Frost and Big Boulder will be my weekend day trips since 90 mins away and maybe try Hunter (3 hours) if during week and they get a dump

Was leaning IKON but no day trip Pocono option - went with EPIC. If it ends up being a crappy experience ie ski lines, etc this season - I’ll spend more next year and do IKON and maybe even add INDY for us.

 

[PAabe]

Vail is going to replace 2 additional sets of double-double borvig/partek lifts at Jack Frost and Big Boulder next year, with 1 quad for each pair. So no increase (perhaps even decrease) in capacity but I guess they'll be more reliable and new & shiny

 

[PAabe]

First year with any pass (epic) for my son and I. 3 trips for Vt booked already plus researching out west for late Feb early March. Jack Frost and Big Boulder will be my weekend day trips since 90 mins away and maybe try Hunter (3 hours) if during week and they get a dump

Was leaning IKON but no day trip Pocono option - went with EPIC. If it ends up being a crappy experience ie ski lines, etc this season - I’ll spend more next year and do IKON and maybe even add INDY for us.

I would not be surprised if Camelback and Blue end up on Ikon next year, being KSL owned now, but I also would not be surprised if they never do, considering that they are already at/over capacity and sell out of expensive season passes.

 

[Smellytele]

To be fair, the increase in pass sale figure is compared to last year. So it makes sense to compare uplift capacity to last year. In that case, yes, once the chairs are back to fully filled, it might not be so bad.

For me though, I'm less concerned about the wait in lift line. More concerned about crowded slopes.

I've also got an Epic pass this year because it's cheap. But that's a combination of the carryover credit from the pandemic early closure on top of the 20% discount. If its just the 20% discount, I may or may not take the bait.

If they don't offer the 20% next year? I'm jumping ship 100%

20% off this year’s price or just what this year’s price is?

 

[jaytrem]

Vail is going to replace 2 additional sets of double-double borvig/partek lifts at Jack Frost and Big Boulder next year, with 1 quad for each pair. So no increase (perhaps even decrease) in capacity but I guess they'll be more reliable and new & shiny

Hopefully holding out for a high speed for the other JF double double.

 

[abc]

20% off this year’s price or just what this year’s price is?

The latter

 

[abc]

It depends which numbers you're talking about. There's a 47% increase in sales compared to last year, but it is a 76% increase in sales compared to 2 years ago (when they were operating at full/normal lift capacity). That's substantial...

I'm not as pessimistic just yet.

Granted, I maybe totally wrong. But before Vail took over, there were a lot of day pass skiers. They all converted to Epic passes. (ok, some do, some don't. But I'm guessing a lot of them did). So the total skier visit may not be quite as dramatic of an increase as the pass sale would sugges.

 

[Smellytele]

I'm not as pessimistic just yet.

Granted, I maybe totally wrong. But before Vail took over, there were a lot of day pass skiers. They all converted to Epic passes. (ok, some do, some don't. But I'm guessing a lot of them did). So the total skier visit may not be quite as dramatic of an increase as the pass sale would sugges.

Well i think most day pass people skied multiple ski areas but now that they have an epic pass they will ski vail ski areas.

 

[abc]

I'm not as pessimistic just yet.

Well i think most day pass people skied multiple ski areas but now that they have an epic pass they will ski vail ski areas.

You're probably right. But Vail did buy a whole bunch of resorts. So some of they may be just the same day skiers who were already skiing different resorts under Vail? Or the kind of day skiers who only ski 5-10 days anyway?

I'm sure there's some increase. Otherwise Vail wouldn't buy those mountains. I'm just saying it may not be as dramatic as the percentage increase on paper.

 

[PAabe]

Hopefully holding out for a high speed for the other JF double double.

JF could really use a detach if Vail is trying to compete with Shawnee, Camelback, and Blue. Even Montage said that long term they want to put a detach or carpet loader fixed quad "express" on the long haul alignment if they can cut a blue run down to it. But then again, JF isn't really competing directly against the other poconos places anymore now that there is the whole epic pass thing.

 

[kendo]

It depends which numbers you're talking about. There's a 47% increase in sales compared to last year, but it is a 76% increase in sales compared to 2 years ago (when they were operating at full/normal lift capacity). That's substantial...

* Epic Day Pass sales (advanced purchase, good for 1-7 days) launched 3/2019 for the 19/20 CV shortened FY, are included in the reported 47% pass increase.

So not sure the impact to daily crowds versus prior years with only the Epic Pass (local or full) & 'Advanced Lift Ticket' sales. For sure weekends and holidays will be maxed.

Epic pass sales total % of overall lift ticket revenue has actually been flat for the past couple of years prior to CV. Revenue split: 47% pass products and 53% lift ticket products.



They're now converting and reporting more Advanced Lift Ticket buyers into advanced Epic Day Pass buyers (lower cost product, let's the buyer choose their resort and accessibility... unrestricted or restricted, non-refundable, etc). Captures the revenue earlier in the year and Vail can direct marketing for rebuy in following year with the hopes of migrating a % of the Day Pass buyers up to Local or Full Epic pass products.


The real number to report & compare year over year is number of days skied, by product, by resort.

For FY 18/19, the reported Guest Mix of days skied across all VR was 65% 1-3 days; 21% 4-7 days and 14% >7 days. It doesn't specify if this was Day Pass buyers or all skiers...

https://investors.vailresorts.com/static-files/aa764731-c8b8-45bf-b928-39630c190011

 

[TyWebb]

I would not be surprised if Camelback and Blue end up on Ikon next year, being KSL owned now, but I also would not be surprised if they never do, considering that they are already at/over capacity and sell out of expensive season passes.

I hope so as I would've spent more $$$ this year if IKON had a mountain in the Poconos - have to think one of those two, or Montage maybe even take a shot at Elk.

IKON really needs a presence in the Pa market to compete with what Vail is currently doing here

 

[IceEidolon]

I could imagine a sweetheart deal where an Icon pass as a cheaper add-on is available with your CamelBlue pass, but Icon passes don't include Blue and CB as full partners. Everyone saying that they're already at capacity is correct.

 

[Cobbold]

I hope so as I would've spent more $$$ this year if IKON had a mountain in the Poconos - have to think one of those two, or Montage maybe even take a shot at Elk.

IKON really needs a presence in the Pa market to compete with what Vail is currently doing here

Not familiar with with mid Atlantic skiing, but I have heard, don’t know if it is true, but I have heard camelback is maxed out for skiers and the ikon pass would just overwhelm the place, that’s why it’s not on the ikon, not sure if this is true or not.

 

[abc]

* Epic Day Pass sales (advanced purchase, good for 1-7 days) launched 3/2019 for the 19/20 CV shortened FY, are included in the reported 47% pass increase.

Good point

Vail changed what they count as "pass purchase" to include essentially those who purchase day ticket in advance.

 

[JoeB-Z]

Sunapee surfaces today were considerably better than Okemo's yesterday. They were blowing tons of snow with high air volume guns. Whales all over. I suppose they will wait to groom those out in view of the coming warm weather and worse. East Coast areas are in a tough spot with Christmas week on the horizon. My house is 45 minutes either way and Sunapee keeps winning despite the limited terrain.

Well, shows what I know about surface management. They groomed out Upper Blastoff. That skied very nicely. They groomed out whatever (too many dumb trail name sections) to the north. That had cookies. I ski 95% at Magic Mountain where they would preserve the whales, let them drain and groom then out when it gets cold. I see some very hard surfaces ahead.