VAIL SUCKS

[crystalmountainskier]

https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/www/nepa/117189_FSPLT3_5750594.pdf

How does one find out if the application to replace the summit triple at Attitash was approved?

There will be a tab labelled Decision. Not there yet.

 

[cdskier]

https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/www/nepa/117189_FSPLT3_5750594.pdf

How does one find out if the application to replace the summit triple at Attitash was approved?

Forest Service

Forest Service

www.fs.usda.gov

Currently under review. Decision expected 4/22

You can also check the current Schedule of Proposed Actions (SOPA) report here from this page where the project will be listed: https://www.fs.fed.us/sopa/forest-level.php?110922

 

[kendo]

https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/www/nepa/117189_FSPLT3_5750594.pdf

How does one find out if the application to replace the summit triple at Attitash was approved?

Regardless of it's approved, Vail Eastern Regional VP & COO Tim Baker said in Nov (after the app filing date) ... there's a lot of complex terrain off this lift and we need to take some time to evaluate the best solution.

Sounds like it's not happening for a while.

starting at ~56:30 here:

Podcast #60: Vail Resorts Eastern Region VP & COO Tim Baker

"We view the Eastern region as a really critical element of the future success of our company."

www.stormskiing.com

^It's a corporate jargon packed, teflon interview with lots of "Great question Stuart..."

Stuart should have asked:

Tim when's the last time you skied each Eastern resort and what do you see as the biggest challenge and most needed for each;

What's the snowmaking budget for each Eastern resort and how does that budget compare to the previous 2 fiscal years since you've acquired the Peak portfolio;

The Epic pass Core season for Epic coverage is 12/7 - 4/17, what are you doing to ensure the product your customers purchased is delivered by 12/7 and how will you ensure it's in place through 4/17 (obviously not enough);

What percentage of Open resort terrain do you feel is adequate to the satisfy the expectations of your Epic pass holder...ie: if a resort has 70% snowmaking coverage, how long with favorable temps, should your customers expect it to take for the snowmaking terrain to be open.

Why can't your Easten resorts be transparent with your local customer base. There is zero social media engagement and corporate generated mea culpa's do nothing to mitigate the current challenges at each resort.

Thanks Tim...

 

[IceEidolon]

The corporate speak could also be referring to the quad/six pack/not approved all still pending.

Storm Skiing Podcast pretty much can't ask the hard hitting questions *that* aggressively - Vail corporate and probably a lot of the corporate types would never talk to him again.

 

[thetrailboss]

Tom Clyde: This is the year we broke it

I didn’t ski much during the holidays. I was blacked out at Park City Mountain Resort and crowded out at Deer Valley. There was no possible reason to venture into town. While I wasn’t there…

www.parkrecord.com

 

[PAabe]

If/when they fail... I really hope they can find competent buyers for all of their areas. It almost would be preferable for them to get their act together than dump that many ski areas on the market, but slim chance of that I guess

 

[PAabe]

Previously I may have taken a bit of pleasure in sticking it to Vail, the big bad corporate bogeyman

Now it is just depressing. So many affected employees, skiers, local businesses, ruined ski trips

I hope these areas can turn around with or without Vail

And if in the future a good weekend and night skiing product returns to old Ski Roundtop I would love to buy a pass

 

[bigbob]

Tom Clyde: This is the year we broke it

I didn’t ski much during the holidays. I was blacked out at Park City Mountain Resort and crowded out at Deer Valley. There was no possible reason to venture into town. While I wasn’t there…

www.parkrecord.com

Did you write this article?

 

[drjeff]

It will be interesting to see in the coming season or 2, if the folks in Broomfield learn that while so many more people are buying the Epic Pass, especially in geographic locations where big Western Resorts AREN'T the primary place they will use their Epic passes, that running their small to medium sized properties, that now make up a significant portion of Vail Resorts total number of properties across numerous large population base drawing areas where they're probably selling way more Epic passes than ever, in a way that allows Epic passholders who frequent those smaller areas say 5 to 15+ weekends a season vs just the 1 or 2 weekends they may go West, to be happy with their purchase of an Epic Pass, is going to be key for them at retaining many of the new/newer Epic passholders, especially if unlike myself, they're not tied to one specific Epic resort due to property ownership at that resort.

If they don't my hunch is that the price point of the pass will have to go up (arguably I would expect it to go back to where it was 2 seasons ago before the 20% off reduction hit since basically even for last season, at minimum an Epic passholder from the 19-20 Covid shut down in March season still got a minimum of 20% off of their 20-21 season Epic pass) to offset the likely loss of Epic passholders from this year who primarily use what I will refer to as their "second tier" properties.

Hopefully they will get that the "answer" to their crowding issue is already there if they work through all of the variables needed and just operate their "second tier" resorts in a way like their previous owners did, especially if 1.5 to 2 million Epic passes sold a year will be the new "normal" baseline number for them, and seemingly its 1.5 to 2 million passholders who want to get on the slopes more often than the average skier/rider does.

Going to take a change in thought off the seemingly pure data driven approach being used that for many the "value" in their Epic Pass comes not just from the pricing or the list of "top tier" resorts available, but moreso from how their local mountains where they spend the majority of their season skiing/riding both during the day and in some cases at night, operate from before Christmas until mid March at minimum.

I wonder if the folks in Broomfield are capable of that, and get that say a mountain like Crotched, or their mid-Atlantic and mid- West properties they should be looking at mountains such as Wachusett for day to day operational cues rather than Vail/Whistler/Breck?

In the mean time, I am guessing there will be a plethora of long line social media posts from various Epic Resorts (and probably a bunch of non Epic Resorts) next weekend. Hopefully the MLK Weekend posts will just be of long lines and not any mechanical lift issues and/or snowmaking issues from any resort in the Country!

 

[FBGM]

I will forever be grateful for their substantial infrastructure improvements at their flagships. Whistler has seen a ton of $$$. Beaver Creek got their new area open. Breck has arguably doubled in size since 2000. The Canyons/Park City connection is huge. Mount Snow is getting Sunbrook and Sundance replaced next year with detaches which have been needed/talked about over there for 20 years. Okemo got the Green Ridge hsq...another item that was "in the works" since 2005 lol. Mountain Triple at Stowe...finally getting replaced as well...another lift where the replacement was nothing more than talked about for 10+ years under old ownership.

Their mentality reminds me of ASC. Build build build and f--k everything else. I've never defended Vail but I've always made the argument they are making a lot of positive, high-money/high-impact infrastructure improvements to resorts that will be there forever.

I can tell you first hand that all the PC/Canyons “upgrades” are useless. Gondola to nowhere. Connecting the resorts does nothing but say they are huge on paper. No extra skiing. Garbage area/terrain. But looks good to Texans

 

[thetrailboss]

Did you write this article?

No

 

[ss20]

I can tell you first hand that all the PC/Canyons “upgrades” are useless. Gondola to nowhere. Connecting the resorts does nothing but say they are huge on paper. No extra skiing. Garbage area/terrain. But looks good to Texans

Same as with the Squaw/Palisades-Alpine connection and the Whistler/Blackcomb Gondola... they may be marketing gimmicks but they work!

 

[ss20]

In other news...MTN stock down another 3% today to $298 as of now... falling below the $300 mark for the first time since Sept 15. 52wk high- 376, low- 261

 

[kendo]

Wall Street taking notice of Vail Resorts’ issues

Since early November, Vail Resorts' stock (MTN) has not been a great performer in the larger travel and leisure universe.

www.vaildaily.com

 

[snoseek]

So glad to see the media taking note on all this.

 

[ThatGuy]

Now that their stock price is being negatively effected maybe we’ll see some changes.

 

[thetrailboss]

Wall Street taking notice of Vail Resorts’ issues

Since early November, Vail Resorts' stock (MTN) has not been a great performer in the larger travel and leisure universe.

www.vaildaily.com

“We believe MTN is experiencing severe labor issues that are negatively impacting the customer experience as evidenced by news stories in the media, our private industry contacts, and countless social media postings,” wrote C. Patrick Scholes, Alexander Barenklau and Gregory J. Miller with Truist. “Labor issues are impacting lift openings/staffing, snow grooming, and F&B and retail operations, all compounded by Epic pass sales up 76% from the 2019/2020 ski season.

Maybe they have been following this Epic thread!

 

[thetrailboss]

Another interesting quote:

As a result of the hiring challenges, post-COVID-19 cost savings could actually bump earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization slightly; however, that is “probably not a good nor sustainable thing,” as pointed out by Truist.

And:

Among the issues impacting Vail Resorts that were cited in Truists’ report:

• Epic pass sales are up 76% vs. the 2019/2020 ski season, meaning the slopes would likely be more crowded to start with regardless of any labor issues.
• MTN’s wages are allegedly not competitive in their local markets (likely the most important issue).
• MTN allegedly “gutted” middle management positions, and it has been difficult to rehire.
• Consolidation of local/regional finance, marketing and human resource departments from MTN’s acquired resorts into MTN’s headquarters in Broomfield, and this has led to a dearth of “local knowledge” when it comes to issue like hiring and setting wages.
• A pandemic-triggered escalation of real estate prices has reduced the number of homes available to local workers.
• H2-B and J-1 international work visas, which ski resorts have historically used to fill employment gaps, are in especially short supply.

The big question cited in the report is what will be the financial impact from customer dissatisfaction with the ski experience.

 

[machski]

Same as with the Squaw/Palisades-Alpine connection and the Whistler/Blackcomb Gondola... they may be marketing gimmicks but they work!

You will be able to eit at one of the turn stations on Pallisades Connect Gondi (I think on Olympic side), whether it adds much new terrain is doubtful. I think that Gondi is more important than PC's however, it is quite a long drive out Olympic and over to Alpine by car/bus and the vast majority of beds now and in future development are planned on the Olympic side.

As to the major infrastructure improvements across Vail, yes they have added a bunch of value but they have not figured out the East yet. Toss some new lifts, high elevation terrain pods out west and you see instant value. Out East, not so much given our weather. They have to spend the $$ to get the terrain open and in good shape. So far, they are showing they lag big time in product delivery compared to ALL of their peers, large and small. Until they can deliver the product we care about, fancy lift upgrades are worthless out East.

Another interesting quote:


And:

"The big question cited in the report is what will be the financial impact from customer dissatisfaction with the ski experienc"

This will be the most telling factor. We won't buy these passes again (really bought to hit Vail's big resorts in CO in Feb/Mar and supplement our New England out east from home. But with Crotched down to a 5 day operation, that has been impacted very negatively).

 

[deadheadskier]

Mount Sunapee Had an Hours Long Traffic Jam on Saturday

I was shredding over at Suicide Six Ski Area on Saturday and dealt with some lift lines, but all under five minutes. I decide to do an obligatory doom

unofficialnetworks.com

Why isn't Vail requiring reservations? Seems like the most immediate and impactful change they could make in current season. Just fire up the website from last year