VAIL SUCKS

[yeggous]

No one is paying that they shouldn't even bother staffing the window on those days

I don't think you understand how wealthy the Vail / Beaver Creek clientele is. We're talking about the private jet crowd.

 

[2Planker]

Me too

GM was "in a meeting"

I don't think you understand how wealthy the Vail / Beaver Creek clientele is. We're talking about the private jet crowd.

We rent our house out for 1 week each year. 12/26 thru 1/1. 20K CA$H up front.
The only question the guy ever asked was where could he land/park his Gulfstream 550

Last year from AT they "day tripped to NYC" cause the wifey craved the Chocolate Egg Cream from Old John's Diner

​

 

[RichT]

How much did the passes go up? I have the Veterans pass and it stayed the same. $490

 

[abc]

No one is paying that they shouldn't even bother staffing the window on those days

Not sure about the “no one” part. But it’s clearly stopping a lot of casual skiers from skiing at Vail properties.

After all, Vail isn’t the only ski mountain around. Those who really want to ski in Vail property, they’re indeed better off buying season pass in advance. But for those “fence sitters”, or those already got another pass, Vail’s high price only means we won’t be skiing in their mountains even once in the coming season.

Vail doesn’t care if walk up customers entirely dry up. The reality being, some customers don’t care to ski at Vail property enough to buy a pass. Those are the same customers who won’t be paying the $200/day ticket either. So the dislike are mutual. And Vail knows that.

 

[thetrailboss]

Vail doesn’t care if walk up customers entirely dry up. The reality being, some customers don’t care to ski at Vail property enough to buy a pass. Those are the same customers who won’t be paying the $200/day ticket either. So the dislike are mutual. And Vail knows that.

That's the play by Vail. Daytrippers = fair weather fans who are unpredictable

Kill off the unpredictability and get a commitment to make more $$$$$.

 

[jimmywilson69]

As has been discussed that's all great but how do you get new people into the sport? They clearly don't care and those in charge, similar to mr big smile katz, will have cashed out long before the question has to be asked.

 

[thetrailboss]

As has been discussed that's all great but how do you get new people into the sport? They clearly don't care and those in charge, similar to mr big smile katz, will have cashed out long before the question has to be asked.

Exactly

 

[2Planker]

BW GM is lobbying hard for experienced On Snow staff.
No season pass for the whole family anymore, but hey You're NOT working for Vail

MWV winter job fair - Lots of resorts there EXCEPT AT & WC.
I predict this season will be a huge ClusterFuck of sharing employees between the 2 resorts.
That strategy certainly limited BOTH Snomaking & Grooming efforts last year.

 

[thetrailboss]

MWV winter job fair - Lots of resorts there EXCEPT AT & WC.
I predict this season will be a huge ClusterFuck of sharing employees between the 2 resorts. I
That strategy certainly limited BOTH Snomaking & Grooming last year.

Insanity is defined as doing the same thing twice and expecting different results.

 

[mbedle]

BW GM is lobbying hard for experienced On Snow staff.
No season pass for the whole family anymore, but hey You're NOT working for Vail

MWV winter job fair - Lots of resorts there EXCEPT AT & WC.
I predict this season will be a huge ClusterFuck of sharing employees between the 2 resorts.
That strategy certainly limited BOTH Snomaking & Grooming efforts last year.

Where did you read about not season passes for dependents? This is from their website:​

ALL ASSOCIATES ENJOY AWESOME BENEFITS LIKE:​

• Free alpine and Nordic skiing for you and your dependents (Single? Then pass along ski privileges to a friend!)

 

[2Planker]

Where did you read about not season passes for dependents? This is from their website:​

ALL ASSOCIATES ENJOY AWESOME BENEFITS LIKE:​

• Free alpine and Nordic skiing for you and your dependents (Single? Then pass along ski privileges to a friend!)

Paid vs Volunteer was the way they attempted to explain it.....
Needless to say it did not go over well, and a bunch of folks just got up and walked out.
They are now trying to come to a reasonable agreement that will make both parties happy.

 

[thetrailboss]

Paid vs Volunteer was the way they attempted to explain it.....
Needless to say it did not go over well, and a bunch of folks just got up and walked out.
They are now trying to come to a reasonable agreement that will make both parties happy.

Paid vs. Volunteer as in......?

 

[mbedle]

Exactly

Where do you think they are missing out on with trying to grow the sport? Vail obviously has a ton of data on what does and doesn't work to gain and retain skiers, so I am just wondering what you think they are not doing to grow it. We keep circling back to window rates being ridiculous and a problem with getting new people to try the sport. To be honest, I doubt any young person would just jump in a car and drive hours to a resort they no nothing about to try out skiing. The internet has a wealth of information, that most young people would use it to look into trying a new sport. Plus, I would venture to guess that most people that try skiing, do it with a friend or family member that is already into skiing. With Vail's Epic Day Pass you could ski in NH, PA and all the midwest areas for as low as $39 / day for 7 days. We haven't been able to ski Wildcat, Attitash and Sunapee at that price since the mid 90's. My guess is all the things that we think Vail should have continued to do (i.e., low window rates, school programs, customer appreciation days, ski club discounts, etc.) to grow the sport, Vail has already determined didn't actual result in growth. My guess is they determined that making the sport affordable for vacationing families, does grow the sport with return visits, kids getting into skiing and those kids growing up and doing the same thing with their kids.

 

[mbedle]

Paid vs Volunteer was the way they attempted to explain it.....
Needless to say it did not go over well, and a bunch of folks just got up and walked out.
They are now trying to come to a reasonable agreement that will make both parties happy.

I did not know what you were talking about. What exactly is the "On Snow" staff?

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Where do you think they are missing out on with trying to grow the sport? Vail obviously has a ton of data on what does and doesn't work to gain and retain skiers, so I am just wondering what you think they are not doing to grow it. We keep circling back to window rates being ridiculous and a problem with getting new people to try the sport. To be honest, I doubt any young person would just jump in a car and drive hours to a resort they no nothing about to try out skiing. The internet has a wealth of information, that most young people would use it to look into trying a new sport. Plus, I would venture to guess that most people that try skiing, do it with a friend or family member that is already into skiing. With Vail's Epic Day Pass you could ski in NH, PA and all the midwest areas for as low as $39 / day for 7 days. We haven't been able to ski Wildcat, Attitash and Sunapee at that price since the mid 90's. My guess is all the things that we think Vail should have continued to do (i.e., low window rates, school programs, customer appreciation days, ski club discounts, etc.) to grow the sport, Vail has already determined didn't actual result in growth. My guess is they determined that making the sport affordable for vacationing families, does grow the sport with return visits, kids getting into skiing and those kids growing up and doing the same thing with their kids.

i think vail is awful but i agree with your post. i see people bitch on facebook and i see hypey articles about the insane day price of skiing. but we live in an information age. anyone with half a brain will figure out that there are ways to lower the costs substantially. we can't complain about insane crowding in one breath and then decry vail for killing the sport in the other. it doesn't make sense. the cheap pass product causes people to go to their resorts in frickin droves.

 

[2Planker]

I did not know what you were talking about. What exactly is the "On Snow" staff?

Come On ??? Does it really need to be explained ??

Patrol, Instructors, Lift Ops & Maint. are all On Snow Staff.
Burger flipper, shit bowl cleaner, chamber maid, and secretary are not On Snow

 

[mbedle]

Come On ??? Does it really need to be explained ??

Patrol, Instructors, Lift Ops & Maint. are all On Snow Staff.
Burger flipper, shit bowl cleaner, chamber maid, and secretary are not On Snow

Okay, so the website must be wrong. They don't offer season passes to the dependents of any employee or just the ones that work on the snow?

 

[cdskier]

Where do you think they are missing out on with trying to grow the sport? Vail obviously has a ton of data on what does and doesn't work to gain and retain skiers, so I am just wondering what you think they are not doing to grow it. We keep circling back to window rates being ridiculous and a problem with getting new people to try the sport. To be honest, I doubt any young person would just jump in a car and drive hours to a resort they no nothing about to try out skiing. The internet has a wealth of information, that most young people would use it to look into trying a new sport. Plus, I would venture to guess that most people that try skiing, do it with a friend or family member that is already into skiing. With Vail's Epic Day Pass you could ski in NH, PA and all the midwest areas for as low as $39 / day for 7 days. We haven't been able to ski Wildcat, Attitash and Sunapee at that price since the mid 90's. My guess is all the things that we think Vail should have continued to do (i.e., low window rates, school programs, customer appreciation days, ski club discounts, etc.) to grow the sport, Vail has already determined didn't actual result in growth. My guess is they determined that making the sport affordable for vacationing families, does grow the sport with return visits, kids getting into skiing and those kids growing up and doing the same thing with their kids.

I actually agree with a lot of this and have made some of these same points in the past. Between rentals, lessons, lift tickets, ski clothing, etc...skiing has never had a "cheap" entry point where a lot of random people would suddenly decide to do it by simply walking up to a ticket booth and buying some kind of "cheap" lift ticket. It has long been a sport where people are primarily introduced to it by friends/family. Even in college when we had some first timers want to try skiing, we still weren't paying window rates either. We knew how to get deals. With how accessible information is today (and with virtually everyone having internet access in the palm of their hands), there's really no excuse for even paying window rates. A little research and planning goes a long way.

And I also hate to say this, but if you're a first timer, you don't need to go to a big resort and spend money on high prices at those places anyway. There's plenty of smaller independent "feeder" hills still out there with deals that are great ways to enter the sport. Although as mentioned above, even some of Vail's smaller resorts can be skied relatively cheaply with a little advance planning.

 

[eatskisleep]

These reviews are amazing to read!

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yelp.to

 

[joshua segal]

Patrol, Ski Instructor
Changes in NH Tax Law so any type of compensation is taxable, including your season pass(es)

Since there is no income tax in NH, how can this be relevant?