VAIL SUCKS

[thetrailboss]

If it was on wind hold why was there people on it?

Exactly

 

[doublediamond]

This lift wasn’t on wind hold. Upper mountain lifts were.

 

[ss20]

Statistically Vail will have the most lift accidents given their portfolio is 3x-4x larger than their next competitor.

The gondola incident a few weeks ago at Mt. St Anne is negligence- overrunning sensors, ignoring manufacturer guidelines, etc.

 

[Kingslug20]

I grew up in an era when people worked on their own cars and whatever else. Not so much any more...I gave up teaching maintenance engineering as it became harder to get through to most in my classes. Maintaining machines is going to be a big problem in the years to come as more and more top people retire.
Not sure what the answer is.

 

[RichT]

I grew up in an era when people worked on their own cars and whatever else. Not so much any more...I gave up teaching maintenance engineering as it became harder to get through to most in my classes. Maintaining machines is going to be a big problem in the years to come as more and more top people retire.
Not sure what the answer is.

If I had a son, i'd be pushing him to the trades sector. Nothing like going around making tons of money installing new garage door openers or fixing leaky faucets

 

[cdskier]

If it was on wind hold why was there people on it?

Exactly

Not that I want to defend Vail, but a lift doesn't magically go from being open and loading to being on wind hold with no people on it. There's a period where it goes on hold, they stop loading, but it continues running (possibly at low speed...which is exactly what first hand reports say was being done at the time on this particular lift) in order to offload the remaining people. You can't just put a lift on wind hold and leave everyone on it that was already loaded prior to it going on hold. I would have to think most people on this forum have been on lifts while they put it on wind hold (I know I have been on multiple occasions...Slide Brook at Sugarbush being one of the scariest rides ever).

 

[Dickc]

If it was on wind hold why was there people on it?

I was on the old Jordan lift at Sunday River when they put it on wind hold. They slowed it to a creep speed when I was 1/2 way up, and I kind of wondered why, UNTIL I crested the upper ridge, and holy cow was it blowing! I got hit with a gust 30 seconds later that swung the chair wildly making me hold on as I was suddenly worried about getting thrown out of it. The chair stopped for a moment, and I have to figure it was the upper operator stopping it so that the chair in front of me that was about to enter the top terminal would not derope by missing the guide slot. Got up to the unload a minute later, and had ski patrol tell me that the lift was now on wind hold and to either ski to the Jordan grand and take a shuttle, or ski Kansas over to the rest of the resort. I’ve never been tossed around on a chair like that before, and hope never to again!

 

[FBGM]

You dump speed down to clear line. That’s a standard operating procedure. But, if you’re gusting to way above operating speed, usually at top or brake over, you still have to stop lift.

The more info that’s coming it seems this maybe came off cable right before detach in top terminal. I’ve seen the carriers get caught and derailed with that situation. Never seen one fall. But I had a lift evac due to a hung up detach with wind at top terminal

 

[KustyTheKlown]

VIDEO: Chair falls off Breckenridge ski lift with person on it amid high winds | OutThere Colorado

Video footage posted online shows that a chair fell off the Breckenridge Peak 8 SuperConnect chair lift on Thursday amid high winds. A person was on the chair at the

www.outtherecolorado.com

There’s a video in there of aftermath. It’s at the terminal.

 

[eatskisleep]

How did the Wildcat fix gripped triple fall off last season? A detachable lift makes sense to me, fixed grip not as much…

 

[doublediamond]

In a traditional fixed-grip lift the grip goes up and over the rope and it’s held tight with a big spring.

Riblet lifts on the other hand do not use a traditional fixed-grip. Instead the grip is a clip which is woven into a section of rope. It’s held in place with the rope’s tension.

In the Wildcat incident, and many others like it with Riblet lifts, there was a misload. The chair swung, hit the first tower and got hung up on it which yanked the grip out of the rope. Compounding this issue is that there was not a trained liftie loading the lift. Instead it was a cafeteria worker dragged outside because of their Epic short staffing last year.

While rare, this is a known problem with Riblet lifts. To counteract this some Riblet lifts have long load ramps so that skis are on the ground for a bit preventing the issue at Wildcat or even a wall between the up side and the first tower.

Long load ramp, St. Bernard @ Alpental:

https://skiliftblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/alpental-4-22-07-006.jpg

Wall, Gallery @ Summit Central

https://skiliftblog.files.wordpress.com/2022/04/img_6635.jpg

ETA: Riblet clip vs. standard fixed grip

https://nyskiblog.com/forum/attachments/46a05822-12cd-4682-a70b-cdcfb8615209-jpeg.4889/

 

[SteezyRob]

So what you're essentially inferring is that in any forecasted wind gusts over say 15? 20? 25mph? NO resort should operate a chairlift out of "an abundance of caution" (I HATE that phrase more than Kusty hates crowded groomers or Trailboss hates anyrhing Vail Resorts)...

Or maybe we should all get back to where we were as a society say 10 - 15yrs ago, where some reasonable risk wasn't even thought twice about and was just a normal part of life.

A society that seeks ZERO risk in life, is frankly a society I want nothing to do with. It would be like only skiing the beginner slope, on a sunny, windless 30 degree day, while wearing full body armor and never getting above 5 mph heading downhill

i agree that society has become way too soft but i would say there's a difference between say, making your kid wear safety pads on a training bike and expecting the chairlift to at least stay together.

 

[eatskisleep]

How did the Wildcat fix gripped triple fall off last season? A detachable lift makes sense to me, fixed grip not as muchj

In a traditional fixed-grip lift the grip goes up and over the rope and it’s held tight with a big spring.

Riblet lifts on the other hand do not use a traditional fixed-grip. Instead the grip is a clip which is woven into a section of rope. It’s held in place with the rope’s tension.

In the Wildcat incident, and many others like it with Riblet lifts, there was a misload. The chair swung, hit the first tower and got hung up on it which yanked the grip out of the rope. Compounding this issue is that there was not a trained liftie loading the lift. Instead it was a cafeteria worker dragged outside because of their Epic short staffing last year.

While rare, this is a known problem with Riblet lifts. To counteract this some Riblet lifts have long load ramps so that skis are on the ground for a bit preventing the issue at Wildcat or even a wall between the up side and the first tower.

Long load ramp, St. Bernard @ Alpental:

https://skiliftblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/alpental-4-22-07-006.jpg

Wall, Gallery @ Summit Central

https://skiliftblog.files.wordpress.com/2022/04/img_6635.jpg

ETA: Riblet clip vs. standard fixed grip

https://nyskiblog.com/forum/attachments/46a05822-12cd-4682-a70b-cdcfb8615209-jpeg.4889/

thanks for the info and the Links much appreciated!

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i agree that society has become way too soft but i would say there's a difference between say, making your kid wear safety pads on a training bike and expecting the chairlift to at least stay together.

These snowflakes, expecting to not die on chairlift infrastructure

 

[abc]

Full-time Vail people find Vail to be a good employer, offering internal opportunities for advancement, health insurance, dental insurance, 401k, etc.

I know of at least one Vail full time employee who weren’t happy… Remember that $20/hr pay raise? Well, Vail took away all the other supplemental payments after that. So employees were actually ended up with LESS take home than before the ‘raise’!

Health insurance is mandatory for any corporation with certain number of employees. So is 401K. I got that working part time in my local grocery store chain! So to say that’s a criteria for “good employer” is laughable!

 

[SkiingInABlueDream]

I grew up in an era when people worked on their own cars and whatever else. Not so much any more...I gave up teaching maintenance engineering as it became harder to get through to most in my classes. Maintaining machines is going to be a big problem in the years to come as more and more top people retire.
Not sure what the answer is.

There'll be machines to repair the machines. No one will need to know how to do anything.

I'm mostly (but not entirely) joking

 

[Kingslug20]

In an interview with Elon Musk..he stated that robots will eventually replace humans at so many levels that a global basic wage will be needed for those that simply cannot find work.
It's already happening...
The kiosk
The self checkout
Robotic assembly lines
I'll bet lifties will at some point be replaced with some sort of automated system.
Scanners where with RFID gates.
It's happening.

 

[abc]

Machines will be maintained by other machines to a large extent. But repair will still require SOME human intervention.

I gave up teaching maintenance engineering as it became harder to get through to most in my classes….Not sure what the answer is.

Rely on the Mexicans?

 

[Kingslug20]

Anyone with a desire and some mechanical aptitude can learn...but they need to learn from people with experience...as that dwindles...it's going to get a lot harder.
I read about one company that recorded videos of how to maintain the older machines and put the screen right on it. This was before youtube was big.
When I left the world trade center I had written about 20 illustrated books on everything you needed to know about maintaining the area I managed...and 3.4 terabytes of info on a drive.
They still call once in a while though.
Ski resorts should do this before all the old talent is gone.

 

[abc]

I'll bet lifties will at some point be replaced with some sort of automated system.
Scanners where with RFID gates.

I doubt lifties will be replaced by any automation.

But ticket scanner is really only left in the US. In Europe, you rarely see any human ticket scanner. It’s