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VAIL SUCKS

Former Sunday Rivah Rat

Active member
Joined
Mar 26, 2020
Messages
202
Points
28
disagree. vail so ruined the ski experience at these eastern resorts - otherwise there wouldn't be 386 pages on this - we'd like our mt's and better experiences back - but they aren't coming back. the crotched employees have banded together to accuse those of us speaking out against vail corporate of employee harassment against them. the moderator at snow journal shut down the vail sucks thread there only to have it immediately reposted with a new thread - now he is posting back here at alpine zone more often then over there because he can't even win in his own forum - i guess if i was a property owner at a vail resort and also an employee of the company at that resort i would try and boost the corp too - he has no other options. i have a fundamental problem with a moderator who is a vail employee, moderating a vail sucks thread on a folksy ski chat and i take anything he says over here with a huge grain of salt.
Who is the Vail employee posting here? Lets call that Dbag out!
 

joshua segal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
1,023
Points
63
Location
Southern NH
Website
skikabbalah.com
disagree. vail so ruined the ski experience at these eastern resorts - otherwise there wouldn't be 386 pages on this - we'd like our mt's and better experiences back - but they aren't coming back. the crotched employees have banded together to accuse those of us speaking out against vail corporate of employee harassment against them. the moderator at snow journal shut down the vail sucks thread there only to have it immediately reposted with a new thread - now he is posting back here at alpine zone more often then over there because he can't even win in his own forum - i guess if i was a property owner at a vail resort and also an employee of the company at that resort i would try and boost the corp too - he has no other options. i have a fundamental problem with a moderator who is a vail employee, moderating a vail sucks thread on a folksy ski chat and i take anything he says over here with a huge grain of salt.
As best as I can tell, I am the only Crotched employee who posts regularly on AZ. There are about a half-dozen CM regulars who post on SJ which has a very similar thread to this - even the same title.

Whenever there is a change of ownership - ski area or regular business, changes in ownership are accompanied by changes in style and changes in procedures. Most people react badly if they don't like the changes, so it's not surprising that some people leave - especially if there are many other opportunities available.

At the management level, the problem is worse. The new owner wants "their team" rather than dealing with those who continuously say, "This isn't good." So that the change in ownership resulted in some people leaving at all levels is a truth - but not one peculiar to Vail. We saw similar in the days of ASC.

Just before a ski area is sold, the previous owners usually stop putting money into it. There is no return on investment. As a result, the new properties come with many deferred maintenance issues. ASC has been gone about 15-years and Killington (under POWDR) is just getting caught up on deferred maintenance in the last few years.

There are also a number of issues that are being blamed on Vail that IMO, might be COVID related including:
- Crowded lifts because quads were going up with 1-person, etc.
- Post-COVID employment problems created industry-wide labor shortages which reflected in services being curtailed including less lifts operating on busy days.

Now SLyardsale says, "386 pages on this". If you really read the 386 pages, there is a lot of noise as well as a lot of valid issues. Ultimately, the marketplace will determine whether Vail is making the right choices - not a few hundred of us arguing on a forum.

I like to think that forums like this are to exchange ideas - not personal insults.
 

jaytrem

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,030
Points
83
i have a fundamental problem with a moderator who is a vail employee, moderating a vail sucks thread on a folksy ski chat and i take anything he says over here with a huge grain of salt.

Yeah, I agree, that's why I bailed on Snow Journal (as I suspect you might remember). I think he said he locked it since the season was over, even though it wasn't. The thread became a catch all for good and bad Vail stuff. I was still skiing Whistler and posting mostly positive things about my experience there. Absolutely pointless moderation. Almost no other threads have even been locked there, so it was very out of place. If you're a Vail employee you should recuse yourself from moderating a Vail thread. There were other moderators that could have moderated if necessary. Silly stuff for sure.
 

joshua segal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
1,023
Points
63
Location
Southern NH
Website
skikabbalah.com
Theres a Vail Sucks thread for a reason. If you’re happily employed by them more power to you, but the loss of experienced talent at multiple Vail owned resorts says something.
Find anything that I said about my personal relationship with Vail by which you draw that conclusion. I am merely pointing out the way business works.

My work at Crotched Mountain and a half dozen ski areas dating back to 1978 was and remains a hobby - no more; and like DrJeff at Mount Snow, I own a place at CM that long pre-dates Vail. I've worked for better management groups and a few that were a lot worse. BTW: Vail and Peak are the only ski areas for whom I worked over the last 44 years who never bounced a paycheck on me!
 

ThatGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
1,608
Points
113
Location
America
On a scale from disgruntled to happy you seem closer to one side than the other from the tone of your posts.
 

joshua segal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
1,023
Points
63
Location
Southern NH
Website
skikabbalah.com
On a scale from disgruntled to happy you seem closer to one side than the other from the tone of your posts.
I'm happy to be skiing. Tomorrow will be day 33 for this season for me with almost 700K vertical. This is my 16th season at CM since Peak resurrected them in 2003. Many of the people I've worked with for over 30 years - some, close to 40 (at other ski areas). Who owns CM doesn't change old relationships and doesn't change the trail system. And when you're not depending on a job to put food on the table, who owns the mountain really doesn't matter to me.

This summer Vail did more to deal with deferred maintenance issues than I've ever seen. I think we're putting out a good product. As I said in an earlier post, our guests will be the judge. If they come back, we're doing OK.
 

KustyTheKlown

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
5,414
Points
113
Location
Brooklyn
Meanwhile in utah (solitude, not a vail. This is just where the chairlift chat is right now). This also happened during a hold with no passengers, or outside operating hours…


1671839015153.jpeg
 

joshua segal

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
1,023
Points
63
Location
Southern NH
Website
skikabbalah.com
Yeah, I agree, that's why I bailed on Snow Journal (as I suspect you might remember). I think he said he locked it since the season was over, even though it wasn't. The thread became a catch all for good and bad Vail stuff. I was still skiing Whistler and posting mostly positive things about my experience there. Absolutely pointless moderation. Almost no other threads have even been locked there, so it was very out of place. If you're a Vail employee you should recuse yourself from moderating a Vail thread. There were other moderators that could have moderated if necessary. Silly stuff for sure.
Jaytrem: You are right. There was already a new thread started for the next year and having two threads didn't make sense. If I objected to the thread, I would have deleted it. I just closed it to encourage people to post in the new thread (that had the same title).

And, as a moderator on SJ, I really did read the thread I closed (and the other admin who is not a Vail employee agreed). The thread had become so long and so unwieldy that people were just repeating the same things. I like to think that the purpose of a forum is not like TV commercials that just repeat the same idea because they're selling a product.
 

SLyardsale

Active member
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
242
Points
28
Jaytrem: You are right. There was already a new thread started for the next year and having two threads didn't make sense. If I objected to the thread, I would have deleted it. I just closed it to encourage people to post in the new thread (that had the same title).

And, as a moderator on SJ, I really did read the thread I closed (and the other admin who is not a Vail employee agreed). The thread had become so long and so unwieldy that people were just repeating the same things. I like to think that the purpose of a forum is not like TV commercials that just repeat the same idea because they're selling a product.
This is a lie. You locked the thread and a new was created within 5 mins LATER. Jaytrem left first - smarter than I .
 

SLyardsale

Active member
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
242
Points
28
Yeah, I agree, that's why I bailed on Snow Journal (as I suspect you might remember). I think he said he locked it since the season was over, even though it wasn't. The thread became a catch all for good and bad Vail stuff. I was still skiing Whistler and posting mostly positive things about my experience there. Absolutely pointless moderation. Almost no other threads have even been locked there, so it was very out of place. If you're a Vail employee you should recuse yourself from moderating a Vail thread. There were other moderators that could have moderated if necessary. Silly stuff for sure.
He called the thread SPAM - and locked it. In the new Vail sucks thread, he called a regular poster out for criticizing the vail cookie cutter snow reports by calling it political diatribe.
 

jaytrem

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
2,030
Points
83
There was already a new thread started for the next year and having two threads didn't make sense.

Now you're just making things up. The new thread was not created until over an hour after you closed the original. Maybe not a good idea to lie about things that are so easily checked. I was still skiing at a Vail resort during the 21-22 season and posting mostly positives. So not everything was people saying the same thing over and over. I'm not sure why you suddenly decided that censorship was good for Snow Journal, but you lost my respect that day. And that's all I will say about this and the last time I will interact with you.
 

deadheadskier

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
28,054
Points
113
Location
Southeast NH
And, as a moderator on SJ, I really did read the thread I closed (and the other admin who is not a Vail employee agreed). The thread had become so long and so unwieldy that people were just repeating the same things. I like to think that the purpose of a forum is not like TV commercials that just repeat the same idea because they're selling a product.

So, I've been a moderator here for probably 12 years or so now. I've come to believe that less moderation is the better way. I didn't always feel that way. In fact, I'd say the first five years or so I was probably the most uptight moderator of our group in regards to rule enforcement. I was very quick to shutdown political discussions and personal attacks. It was rooted in wanting to keep the peace, but those decisions often resulted in even less peace.

We still don't really want politics or personal attacks here, but mostly let them slide unless it's a real nuisance with lots of reported posts. So by enlarge we just let the conversations go where they may. People are always free to not read them if they don't like the topics or direction. For the most part the forum moderates itself, the folks here are largely good people with a shared passion, spats don't last long.

I'll clean up the spam and alert Nick about technical issues. That's been about it for a few years now. Couple testy times during the height of Covid, but that's about it.

But, perhaps Snow journal is going for something different. I'm not member over there, but occasionally browse. Lots of good content.
 

thetrailboss

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
32,557
Points
113
Location
NEK by Birth
I doubt lifties will be replaced by any automation.

But ticket scanner is really only left in the US. In Europe, you rarely see any human ticket scanner. It’s
They are running lifts in Europe using CCTV systems….
 

SLyardsale

Active member
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
242
Points
28
Now you're just making things up. The new thread was not created until over an hour after you closed the original. Maybe not a good idea to lie about things that are so easily checked. I was still skiing at a Vail resort during the 21-22 season and posting mostly positives. So not everything was people saying the same thing over and over. I'm not sure why you suddenly decided that censorship was good for Snow Journal, but you lost my respect that day. And that's all I will say about this and the last time I will interact with you.
same here - it's a good move - too bad.

sj ys.JPG
 
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