VAIL SUCKS

[deadheadskier]

Seems to me they have plenty of windows to refresh trails and expand terrain over the next several days prior to the event.

How busy is it honestly going to be midweek that you can't devote one freaking trail to race training?

I know the weather has been brutal, but I do think this is at least partially an indictment on how poor Vails efforts have been at making Snow early season. That's definitely true in NH compared to much of the competition.

 

[gittist]

Damn...

Must be nice to own a Snowcat to plow your driveway!

My driveway would a lot easier to take care of with one!!! I like snow anywhere but on my driveway.

 

[jaytrem]

Do you know what trail they were going to use? Plenty of snow on Inferno right now, there are often gates set up on there. Perhaps they can't accommodate both the Academy and your GS group. May have needed Ego?

 

[drjeff]

Seems to me they have plenty of windows to refresh trails and expand terrain over the next several days prior to the event.

How busy is it honestly going to be midweek that you can't devote one freaking trail to race training?

I know the weather has been brutal, but I do think this is at least partially an indictment on how poor Vails efforts have been at making Snow early season. That's definitely true in NH compared to much of the competition.

Simply put, South Bowl is the only trail that realistically could be used for that Masters Camp logistically. It was going to factor in to getting all 70+ rolls of b-net set up prior to the U12 and U14 races the following weekend. It is currently the only trail of appropriate length at Mount Snow that has the dedicated timing wire in place to hold a GS for that level (can't use the wireless system my home hill race department also has and uses in some trails for other timed events the mountain hosts).

The other option, Inferno, is scheduled to get pummeled with snowmaking ASAP and for a while as it's the site venue for the USASA Futures Tour Slopestyle event in 2 weeks (hopefully if they can make enough snow for the planned 40 - 60 ft gap jumps near the bottom of the run).

And even though South Bowl got 1 good run under the guns towards the end of the Christmas Week cold, the last week did way too much damage and that hill takes a significant amount of the air the mountain has, even with the low e HKD's and Snowlogics that line it. The reality is looking at the forecast and what the mountain currently looks like, and with MLK Weekend looming, they had to prioritize their snowmaking plan, and getting Southbowl reopened by Wednesday, and netted up properly, just wasn't in the cards.

Heck I know it's taken a herculean effort by BIG race crews the last couple of days to get the men's (at Burke) and Women's (at Stratton) off the last 2 days. And this weekend if it wasn't for the fact that it only requires flattish terrain, Mount Snow would of had to cancel the Southern VT Council U10 and U12 skills competition they're hosting. Heck, even my daughter who has been up at Sunday River since Monday and will be there through early next week for her college race team pre season training camp told me they gave up on training before lunch today because of how sketchy the snow was getting.

Wish my home hill could of pulled the Masters Camp and race off, as with my newly acquired USSSA Race Official Status, I was supposed to be the head starter for the 2 GS's that were scheduled for next Friday. I could of DQ'd you for inappropriate filling out of a GS suit!

 

[drjeff]

Do you know what trail they were going to use? Plenty of snow on Inferno right now, there are often gates set up on there. Perhaps they can't accommodate both the Academy and your GS group. May have needed Ego?

Inferno is supposed to get hit BIG TIME with snowmaking right after the core trail recovery efforts are done, as it's (Inferno) slated to be the location of the USASA futures tour slopestyle comp in about 2 weeks. And they need enough snow to build Inferno up like they used to. Which means there's no way you could safely race/train on it during that snowmaking assault

 

[deadheadskier]

Do you know what trail they were going to use? Plenty of snow on Inferno right now, there are often gates set up on there. Perhaps they can't accommodate both the Academy and your GS group. May have needed Ego?

No idea. The camp director only sent out a cancellation notice stating "Mt Snow has determined they do not have the snow to support the event"

The event was all five days, 2 days SL training, 2 days GS training and then a Master's GS Race on Friday. Trainings you could do just SL, just GS or book both. There were 32 of us booked for GS.

Just seems like they could find a spot for 32 participants to train during one of the slowest midweeks of the year. Wouldn't even need a full GS course. Timed runs were only about 25% of the curriculum. I'd have been fine just doing drills with flags and short sections of gates.

 

[drjeff]

Meanwhile, Vail doesn't suck out in Park City right now...

My youngest sent me this today from up on 9990 where he was skiing with some friends today... They're skiing the Park City side of the resort tomorrow (I'm guessing my phone will be getting pics from Jupiter Bowl tomorrow as I am at work ) then out with Park City Powder Cats on Saturday and then either the AM shift at Deer Valley or Park City on Sunday before hopping on the plane to Boston home... I wish I was my youngest kid these next few days!

 

[deadheadskier]

Jeff, I guess my overall point is that I look at Boyne ski areas, and all three of their majors have the terrain available right now to have held these camps. They haven't had a significant weather advantage if any save for maybe Sugarloaf compared to Mt Snow. Killington likely could too.

A lot of Vails portfolio were once renown for their snowmaking efforts, Mt Snow, Sunapee and especially Okemo. They just don't seem to be taking advantage of every short early season window like they once did.

I'd love for my observations to be proven wrong. Not an exact science, but I bet if you tracked gallons pumped per month over the past ten years, you'd see weaker efforts early season at Vail properties than under prior owners.

 

[Kingslug20]

9990 is awesome...

 

[abc]

9990 is awesome...

I prefer not having to hike…

Going to Colorado soon. Tucker Mountain at Copper and Beaver at AB. Both new to me. Looking forward to it.

 

[thetrailboss]

In yet another example of Vail sucking, I had been signed up for a two day Master's GS Race Camp next Wednesday and Thursday at Mt Snow. I had been really looking forward to it.

Mt Snow just cancelled the camp saying they don't have enough snow to support it. Absolutely ridiculous. Even with this bad run of weather, Mt Snow hasn't made enough snow to set aside one training trail midweek for 32 participants? Are you serious? I bet even Gunstock could have supported it this week.

This is just another example of Vail totally failing at being aggressive with early season snowmaking. They are absolutely awful at Eastern Ski operations.

That company can't die soon enough.
Fuck Vail

Vail does not like racing. Period. The only exception is their event at Beaver Creek. PCMR was a big ski racing destination and they frequently had big races to generate interest and business with ancillary events. Vail is only concerned about EPIC and other profit centers related to EPIC. Other things such as events are a loss in their minds.

 

[thetrailboss]

Yeah……at the risk of stepping on dr Jeff’s toes, I’d give mount snow a pass on this one.

I know Stratton had to cancel some race training and related activities today.

its fucking rough out here right now in so vt.

I am honestly stunned. In my lifetime living out here (31 years) I have never seen an extended streak of absolutely terrible weather at a crucial time of the season. Sure there have been some spikes in temps that erased snow, but there would be a resumption of colder temps to allow for snowmaking. The only thing I can compare this to is maybe the start of 2006-2007. It was warm and I remember the skiing absolutely sucking until February 14, 2007 when we got the first of three or four big storms that coincidentally fell on major holidays (Valentine's Day, Good Friday/Easter, and even Patriot's Day IIRC).

We arrived in BOS on December 27th and I looked at the forecast and was thinking, "well, it will change." We arrived at my folks to find a very thin and saturated/frozen snowpack that has now all disappeared in a week. Burke was pretty bad honestly. They got a solid base on the Dippers and barely opened the lower mountain as well as Willoughby-Lower Bear Den before we skied, but the trails were firm and icy base with little natural snow. Carriage Road was barely skiable. Folks at the mountain told me that the snowmaking team had been doing a bang-up job, but there's not much you can do when it rains, rains, and rains.

We left the NEK on Monday, January 2nd and drove north and east to Sugarloaf. There was NO snow here in the NEK on the ground. The snowmobile mecca, Island Pond, had maybe a 1-3" base and was dead. Once we got up to Dixville Notch did we start seeing a more solid snowpack. Heading into Maine and Rangeley there was a respectable amount of snow. Sugarloaf had apparently gotten 3-4" of natural before the bad storm and the natural snow was firm and patchy in some places. Snowmaking saved them--deep bases thanks to a massive pumping upgrade this summer. Even then we had two days of spring conditions more like April. I can honestly say that if it was not for Sugarloaf we would not have skied this week. Period. If anyone is wondering, that mountain has really lucked out in this terrible pattern but not by much.

By the time we left and drove back down to Route 2 (due to icing/snow/sleet this morning) it was snowing pretty decently on the mountain but there was little snow in Farmington and none pretty much all along Route 2.

I really hope this changes for NE. It looks like a slight cool down this weekend before a bounce back up to above normal temps (but not as much). This "snow event" has been a complete bust so far. I did not see any real snow in the forecast until maybe next weekend for Vermont.

Seeing Burke at 11 trails, Jay at 18 (and pics of patchy snow on CanAm), Bolton at 9, MRG at 2, and other places in the low double digits is pretty surprising and sad.

 

[Kingslug20]

I prefer not having to hike…

Going to Colorado soon. Tucker Mountain at Copper and Beaver at AB. Both new to me. Looking forward to it.

No hiking needed...
They closed the back country gate any way.

 

[drjeff]

Jeff, I guess my overall point is that I look at Boyne ski areas, and all three of their majors have the terrain available right now to have held these camps. They haven't had a significant weather advantage if any save for maybe Sugarloaf compared to Mt Snow. Killington likely could too.

A lot of Vails portfolio were once renown for their snowmaking efforts, Mt Snow, Sunapee and especially Okemo. They just don't seem to be taking advantage of every short early season window like they once did.

I'd love for my observations to be proven wrong. Not an exact science, but I bet if you tracked gallons pumped per month over the past ten years, you'd see weaker efforts early season at Vail properties than under prior owners.

Just as an FYI, looking at the VARA (VT Alpine Racing Association) Killington has already postponed 2 FIS level races scheduled for next Monday and Tuesday.

No idea as to an across the Vail Resorts portfolio of how early season pumping now vs under their previous owners. Really can't make a straight up comparison at my home hill as just before Vail bought Mount Snow is when the total game changer West Lake snowmaking upgrade came on line, and they've made a lot of snow this year, and also taken plenty of warm air, probably close to 6" of rain since they opened for the season, and now almost a week of temps that basically haven't gotten below freezing with plenty of fog and some rain too.

Mother Nature has been a real B$tch to the Northeast ski industry this year as a whole so far

 

[snoseek]

I am honestly stunned. In my lifetime living out here (31 years) I have never seen an extended streak of absolutely terrible weather at a crucial time of the season. Sure there have been some spikes in temps that erased snow, but there would be a resumption of colder temps to allow for snowmaking. The only thing I can compare this to is maybe the start of 2006-2007. It was warm and I remember the skiing absolutely sucking until February 14, 2007 when we got the first of three or four big storms that coincidentally fell on major holidays (Valentine's Day, Good Friday/Easter, and even Patriot's Day IIRC).

We arrived in BOS on December 27th and I looked at the forecast and was thinking, "well, it will change." We arrived at my folks to find a very thin and saturated/frozen snowpack that has now all disappeared in a week. Burke was pretty bad honestly. They got a solid base on the Dippers and barely opened the lower mountain as well as Willoughby-Lower Bear Den before we skied, but the trails were firm and icy base with little natural snow. Carriage Road was barely skiable. Folks at the mountain told me that the snowmaking team had been doing a bang-up job, but there's not much you can do when it rains, rains, and rains.

We left the NEK on Monday, January 2nd and drove north and east to Sugarloaf. There was NO snow here in the NEK on the ground. The snowmobile mecca, Island Pond, had maybe a 1-3" base and was dead. Once we got up to Dixville Notch did we start seeing a more solid snowpack. Heading into Maine and Rangeley there was a respectable amount of snow. Sugarloaf had apparently gotten 3-4" of natural before the bad storm and the natural snow was firm and patchy in some places. Snowmaking saved them--deep bases thanks to a massive pumping upgrade this summer. Even then we had two days of spring conditions more like April. I can honestly say that if it was not for Sugarloaf we would not have skied this week. Period. If anyone is wondering, that mountain has really lucked out in this terrible pattern but not by much.

By the time we left and drove back down to Route 2 (due to icing/snow/sleet this morning) it was snowing pretty decently on the mountain but there was little snow in Farmington and none pretty much all along Route 2.

I really hope this changes for NE. It looks like a slight cool down this weekend before a bounce back up to above normal temps (but not as much). This "snow event" has been a complete bust so far. I did not see any real snow in the forecast until maybe next weekend for Vermont.

Seeing Burke at 11 trails, Jay at 18 (and pics of patchy snow on CanAm), Bolton at 9, MRG at 2, and other places in the low double digits is pretty surprising and sad.

While I'm sure it was great to visit, this trip ought to make you appreciate Utah when you're back! Get ready for a wave of unplanned east coasters spilling in if it doesnt change much. I know I'm eyeing flights, and not because I desire to fly west this year...I've got my fill, but because at some point I would like to ski on some actual fucking snow before MTB season. I would just assume take my vacation close to home this year so I'm really doing a dance for it to flip

 

[FBGM]

East coast is in rough shape up and down. Little to no snowmaking in forecast.

I’m no Vail fan but if Mt Blow looks even remotely close to other places they might not have base to set gates or have that much hard traffic. There’s no base and everything is isothermic down to fucking dirt. Nothing supportive. Need freezing temps.

 

[drjeff]

East coast is in rough shape up and down. Little to no snowmaking in forecast.

I’m no Vail fan but if Mt Blow looks even remotely close to other places they might not have base to set gates or have that much hard traffic. There’s no base and everything is isothermic down to fucking dirt. Nothing supportive. Need freezing temps.

Exactly!

Saw maybe a 25/75 ratio of gate and b-net drill holes last weekend that were coming up with dirt rather than just clean snow. And that was prior to the last 4 days of above freezing temps and melting that has continued this week.

Need a weather pattern change, and one that sticks around for more than a couple of days soon

 

[thebigo]

Ragged is hosting a ski east high school race Saturday plus setting SL on another trail for training. I will be over later today and can confirm but have heard nothing about the b netting we set holiday week .

 

[jimmywilson69]

Yes @deadheadskier, I do control the weather. No race camp for the nonbelievers... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

 

[thetrailboss]

Yes @deadheadskier, I do control the weather. No race camp for the nonbelievers... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

EGAD he’s back!