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VAIL SUCKS
- Thread starter thebigo
- Start date
thebigo
Well-known member
oldfartrider
Active member
After spending the last 2 days at Sugarbush visited Stowe today. It was so good. Several trails open with quality man made even Centerline was open.
kingslug
Well-known member
And there ya go...
Well, Vail sucks hardest in NH of all the places they suck.
Not even one ttb trail in the state open for the holiday weekend.
"Fixed it for you."
Must be they do not think that NH is a ski state. Especially since Vail owns three big Vermont brands.
chuckstah
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Messages
- 1,646
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- 83
Probably sharing Snow makers with Okemo, and Okemo is getting the lions share. Same old shit.
Well, Vail sucks hardest in NH of all the places they suck.
Not even one ttb trail in the state open for the holiday weekend.
NH mountains are just feeder hills to Vail. It would appear the strategy for such places is to cram the same skier visits as before into a much shorter season with much less aggressive snowmaking. There's no real estate play at any of them.
Highly profitable epic mediocrity. But it's too cheap for too many to pass up. No real motive for them to change as best I can tell.
Attitash has some real estate. And IIRC the Muellers were pretty damn close to developing at Sunapee (or did they lose that battle with the state?)
The MWV is a great destination IMHO. I would have thought that Rob and company would want to at least try to do something there with two good resorts out of five in their portfolio. Hell, Boyne moved in not too long ago by buying Pleasant Mountain.
I don't think any of the real estate at Attitash is under Vail control. Not sure what they can develop, but I haven't read of anything proposed. Maybe some of the land around the Grand Summit?
If there was anything substantial on the drawing board, you'd think they'd not have mothballed the summer ops at the mountain.
Sunapee development I recall being pretty small and only doable if the West Bowl expansion gets built. I thought it was approved at one point.
If there was anything substantial on the drawing board, you'd think they'd not have mothballed the summer ops at the mountain.
Sunapee development I recall being pretty small and only doable if the West Bowl expansion gets built. I thought it was approved at one point.
Ah, makes sense. Peaks probably sold off what real estate there was and focused on the operations of the area. Did I read that the Grand Summit is timeshares or something and not a hotel anymore? I also seem to recall that it was pretty beat and in need of a serious facelift.
I think it's been timeshares for twenty years and beat for probably just as long. I stayed there once in 2010 and it was in pretty rough shape. Outdoor pool was nice though.
thebigo
Well-known member
The attitash hotel owners took over control from peak a number of years ago. We used to do a long weekend at the attitash hotel when the kids were younger. Dirt cheap in March, pool was good and north conway kept the wife occupied.
When I read that wildcat was open, I just assumed it was lynx off the top. What sense does bobcat off tomcat possibly make? Either open lynx off tomcat or just run the bobcat chair.
Lack of investment in sunapee is strange. Would figure that place to be profitable. Was trying to figure when the sunapee lease is up. Best I could find is 2028 with ten year options, not sure whether options are mutual? Last I knew the expansion was approved. Rode up with a sunapee coach at Killington a few weeks back, said they have been through three GMs since vail took over. First two did not support the expansion, this one does for whatever that is worth.
When I read that wildcat was open, I just assumed it was lynx off the top. What sense does bobcat off tomcat possibly make? Either open lynx off tomcat or just run the bobcat chair.
Lack of investment in sunapee is strange. Would figure that place to be profitable. Was trying to figure when the sunapee lease is up. Best I could find is 2028 with ten year options, not sure whether options are mutual? Last I knew the expansion was approved. Rode up with a sunapee coach at Killington a few weeks back, said they have been through three GMs since vail took over. First two did not support the expansion, this one does for whatever that is worth.
I just looked. It appears to be separately owned and operated. Rooms, for midweek in January, were not bad at all in terms of price. It does appear to be timeshares.
jimmck
Member
Not timeshares, fractional ownership
oldfartrider
Active member
To say that NH is a feeder for Vail resorts out west makes no sense. If that was the case they wouldn’t sell the Northeast Value pass. How do u feed the west with this pass?
I think the Northeast value pass is only offered because they realize some folks don't ski out west, so a local affordable pass option would sell better. Plenty of people still go full Epic who ski NH , but also want VT available without blackouts. When I said "feeder" hill, I didn't mean just out west, I meant VT too where the season lengths and snowmaking budgets haven't been slashed nearly as harshly as in NH. The thinking is as long as the NH product is "good enough", people will deal with the shortcomings if they have options a bit further away in VT or out West.
It works. They have no shortage of takers for Epic in NH despite managing those areas worse than Peak or other prior owners. It's too cheap for people to stay away. I bought back in with a couple of day passes this season after swearing off Vail two years ago. I won't go back to full Epic, but I'll probably continue to buy 2-3 day tickets a season for my kids and I because it's so cheap. If iKon offered similar, I'd buy it. Their by the ticket rates are terrible in comparison.
There are others in this thread who are considering going back full time, I assume price + location + liking the terrain is enough for them to overlook the shorter season and lame early season efforts. Or they ski midweek where Epic crowds aren't an issue.
From a business perspective, what Vail is doing in NH makes perfect sense. As a long time Wildcat skier who loved the long season there, I don't have to like their methods. I get it, but don't like it.
It works. They have no shortage of takers for Epic in NH despite managing those areas worse than Peak or other prior owners. It's too cheap for people to stay away. I bought back in with a couple of day passes this season after swearing off Vail two years ago. I won't go back to full Epic, but I'll probably continue to buy 2-3 day tickets a season for my kids and I because it's so cheap. If iKon offered similar, I'd buy it. Their by the ticket rates are terrible in comparison.
There are others in this thread who are considering going back full time, I assume price + location + liking the terrain is enough for them to overlook the shorter season and lame early season efforts. Or they ski midweek where Epic crowds aren't an issue.
From a business perspective, what Vail is doing in NH makes perfect sense. As a long time Wildcat skier who loved the long season there, I don't have to like their methods. I get it, but don't like it.
oldfartrider
Active member
This year Wildcat opened the day after Stowe and most likely will close on the same date. The remaining NH Epic areas have traditionally opened early Dec. There were a few years in the early 90s when Otten first owned Attitash that they opened early but that’s hard to attain now with the changing climate. I belonged to a ski club in Bartlett for 15+ years starting 1990 and the early go to mountain was always Sunday River. Wildcat was never known for snowmaking/grooming
