VAIL SUCKS

[Smellytele]

Ol’fart,
I think the issue is While WC did open they were not top to bottom which when they usually open they are. They are open ttb now.

 

[jimmywilson69]

the "normal" WC opening route is long as shit though right? I'm not excusing it, but I can sort of understand trying different rollouts. Sugarbush is doing it SR had to do it. If WC can get open down low earlier if temps are present, then they can at least say they are open.

 

[deadheadskier]

the "normal" WC opening route is long as shit though right? I'm not excusing it, but I can sort of understand trying different rollouts. Sugarbush is doing it SR had to do it. If WC can get open down low earlier if temps are present, then they can at least say they are open.

There are far shorter / better choices than the route they selected. They could just do mod and lower Lynx off that same chair and it would require much less snow to open and wouldn't have a major ass traverse at the bottom to get back to the lift.

 

[deadheadskier]

This year Wildcat opened the day after Stowe and most likely will close on the same date. The remaining NH Epic areas have traditionally opened early Dec. There were a few years in the early 90s when Otten first owned Attitash that they opened early but that’s hard to attain now with the changing climate. I belonged to a ski club in Bartlett for 15+ years starting 1990 and the early go to mountain was always Sunday River. Wildcat was never known for snowmaking/grooming

Wildcat used to compete to be the first to open in the state and was almost always the last to close. Vail chopped about a month of their season.

Sunapee used to open for Thanksgiving every year and would stay open until the third weekend in April. Vail chopped a month off their season too.

And with both places , early season terrain expansion has been way worse than the prior owners.

 

[snoseek]

Wildcat used to compete to be the first to open in the state and was almost always the last to close. Vail chopped about a month of their season.

Sunapee used to open for Thanksgiving every year and would stay open until the third weekend in April. Vail chopped a month off their season too.

And with both places , early season terrain expansion has been way worse than the prior owners.

At least they're open. I gotta wait another week but at least they'll open with a decent selection.

I'm more disappointed with them shutting down anytime before midmay(most years). I miss the old days of lapping just the top of wildcat off the midmtn chair. It was as good as it gets on a proper day. I dislike how everyone gets funneled to Vermont when nh goes hard in the spring.

I guess I'll just ride my bike this week and burn of this pesky covid.

 

[oldfartrider]

This years opening date falls right in with dates of previous years according to https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/NewHampshire/wildcatmtn.php

 

[jimmywilson69]

All this is opening talk is moot anyways. They opened the wildcat express today from the top.

 

[2Planker]

All this is opening talk is moot anyways. They opened the wildcat express today from the top.

Sweet, Now I'll bust 'em out

 

[AdironRider]

Wildcat used to compete to be the first to open in the state and was almost always the last to close. Vail chopped about a month of their season.

Sunapee used to open for Thanksgiving every year and would stay open until the third weekend in April. Vail chopped a month off their season too.

And with both places , early season terrain expansion has been way worse than the prior owners.

Left unsaid: Wildcat couldn't find a buyer prior to Peak, and is probably the least valuable asset in Vail's portfolio. There are reasons behind this, notably that they historically pissed money away to appease like three people on early and late openings. Their skier visit numbers have always been pitiful, they lack water resources, and have zero opportunity for expansion.

Go to Killington in the spring, then think back to Wildcat's spring offerings. The attendance to each was night and day different. Even the atmosphere was radically different. While I will give any ski area props for being open, Wildcat was never going to be able to sustain that level of operation.

Sunapee's market is also not conducive to late seasons. They are a family joint, and kids have spring activities. That place is a ghost town after March.

I think people need to realize that not every ski area in the country should push for a close in May. Regardless of conditions, the market just does not exist for skiing post March outside of a few distinct places. While I agree to an extent that the current mega pass environment has left day tickets to take advantage of said spring areas very expensive, you could cater your season pass choice to accommodate if you wanted. Myself, I like to split the difference as mid-season conditions ultimately matter a little more to me vs. extending season length at all costs.

 

[deadheadskier]

Left unsaid: Wildcat couldn't find a buyer prior to Peak, and is probably the least valuable asset in Vail's portfolio. There are reasons behind this, notably that they historically pissed money away to appease like three people on early and late openings. Their skier visit numbers have always been pitiful, they lack water resources, and have zero opportunity for expansion.

Go to Killington in the spring, then think back to Wildcat's spring offerings. The attendance to each was night and day different. Even the atmosphere was radically different. While I will give any ski area props for being open, Wildcat was never going to be able to sustain that level of operation.

Sunapee's market is also not conducive to late seasons. They are a family joint, and kids have spring activities. That place is a ghost town after March.

I think people need to realize that not every ski area in the country should push for a close in May. Regardless of conditions, the market just does not exist for skiing post March outside of a few distinct places. While I agree to an extent that the current mega pass environment has left day tickets to take advantage of said spring areas very expensive, you could cater your season pass choice to accommodate if you wanted. Myself, I like to split the difference as mid-season conditions ultimately matter a little more to me vs. extending season length at all costs.

Cool story Bro Satriani.

This is what I said

"From a business perspective, what Vail is doing in NH makes perfect sense. As a long time Wildcat skier who loved the long season there, I don't have to like their methods. I get it, but don't like it."

 

[thebigo]

Left unsaid: Wildcat couldn't find a buyer prior to Peak, and is probably the least valuable asset in Vail's portfolio. There are reasons behind this, notably that they historically pissed money away to appease like three people on early and late openings. Their skier visit numbers have always been pitiful, they lack water resources, and have zero opportunity for expansion.

Go to Killington in the spring, then think back to Wildcat's spring offerings. The attendance to each was night and day different. Even the atmosphere was radically different. While I will give any ski area props for being open, Wildcat was never going to be able to sustain that level of operation.

Sunapee's market is also not conducive to late seasons. They are a family joint, and kids have spring activities. That place is a ghost town after March.

I think people need to realize that not every ski area in the country should push for a close in May. Regardless of conditions, the market just does not exist for skiing post March outside of a few distinct places. While I agree to an extent that the current mega pass environment has left day tickets to take advantage of said spring areas very expensive, you could cater your season pass choice to accommodate if you wanted. Myself, I like to split the difference as mid-season conditions ultimately matter a little more to me vs. extending season length at all costs.

Unlikely Wildcat is the 'least valuable asset'. Some of the redundancies in PA or midwest likely take that title. Wildcat does not 'lack water resources'.

The early/late argument has existed since the first armchair ski area operators shared a beer in a parking lot. The consensus is that early/late is a loss leader aimed at driving pass sales and/or renting training space. Powdr and Boyne have deemed the investment worth it, vail disagrees, it is that simple.

Personally, I am tied to ragged as primary pass. Question is the second pass, largely used for early/late. As of now both powdr and Boyne crush vail. If vail committed to a longer season in NH we would switch back but apparently there are not enough people like us.

 

[AdironRider]

Powdr and Boyne have decided early and late season are worth it at select locations, not as a universal company wide ethos.

Something Vail does as well, just not at every piddly mountain they own. Mt Snow is consistently open later than they ever were under Peak for example.

 

[joshua segal]

FWIW: Crotched Mountain will be opening on December 1. That is their earliest opening since 2003 when they came off the NELSAP list.

 

[thebigo]

FWIW: Crotched Mountain will be opening on December 1. That is their earliest opening since 2003 when they came off the NELSAP list.

Joshua - serious question, can you point to where opening day is mentioned on the crotched website? I see countless attempts to sell epic passes but zero reference to the fact that the mountain is opening in a few days?

 

[doublediamond]

He’s an employee

 

[Smellytele]

Joshua - serious question, can you point to where opening day is mentioned on the crotched website? I see countless attempts to sell epic passes but zero reference to the fact that the mountain is opening in a few days?

It is right on their home page

 

[jimmywilson69]

They actually did a funny/corny video

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729237031589458206

 

[thebigo]

It is right on their home page

Guess I am old fashioned, was looking under snow report.

 

[oldfartrider]

Can’t wait for night trips after work to Crotched. Makes the week!

 

[4aprice]

Powdr and Boyne have decided early and late season are worth it at select locations, not as a universal company wide ethos.

Something Vail does as well, just not at every piddly mountain they own. Mt Snow is consistently open later than they ever were under Peak for example.

KSL is doing this as well in the Pocono's. They are managing both Blue Mt and Camelback. (both now Ikon) They have decided to go early at Blue (maybe this Friday) and not open Camelback till around mid month even though they are making snow there currently. Not totally good or me as its further away but I'm not upset either. What could be interesting will be the end of the season where traditionally Camelback (with its due north exposure and higher elevation) has remained open up to 2 weeks longer then Blue.