Who is at fault

[dblskifanatic]

So my wife and I are now living south of Boston and have two dogs so short day trips do not leave much to choose from. As a result we have not skied at all this year. Since we are headed to Colorado next week, we wanted to get some kind of skiing in. So we went to Nashoba. It is a cool little ski area with no challenging terrain but good to rail turns and play around. We got the two hour lift ticket and that seems like forever there. My wife calls it a ski gym! Place where you quickly lap runs. Does not take long to get to the top on the lifts, no lift lines and about 30 seconds to the bottom,

That being said, on my last run, I was headed straight down a trail. Another person came off another lift and skis to skiers right across two trails to get to the third outside trail. Now coming from my skiers left. Out of my peripheral vision I see someone coming towards be with no time to react. Result - collision! No one is hurt, but I was upset while flailing because Colorado is a week away and do not want to get hurt on this type of ski area. I feel like when skiing around lots of beginners you have to watch all around you! In the picture below I am green the other is read. I think when crossing trails you should yield to down hill traffic - am I wrong? No one got hurt but it could have been worse if were both skiing faster.

 

[drjeff]

As I understand the skiers responsibility code, someone coming onto a trail from a crossing trail should treat the merge like they were starting from a stop on that trail and yield to the skier/rider continuing on that main trail from above. Not unlike a 2 way stop sign for a cross road where the main road without stop signs has the right of way

One of the few instances where the skier/rider from above has the right of way over someone below them.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

^i agree with that. downhill skier loses the right of way when traversing across an open slope.

 

[cdskier]

I agree with what has been said already. And I think you can basically apply this item from the responsiblity code to this situation:

Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.

In my view, if you're traversing across a trail, you're essentially merging into that trail and should look uphill.

 

[Smellytele]

It’s nashoba everyone has the right of way.

 

[jaytrem]

What if the traversing trail is technically a trail? Many are on trail maps. Example: Somerset Road at Mount Snow...

https://www.mountsnow.com/-/media/mt-snow/files/trail-maps/mountsnow_2020-21trailmap.ashx

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i havent looked at a mount snow trail map in years. WOOF. what a stinker.

that somerset road trail's very existence is annoying. in my opinion, its on the traversing green skier to look uphill and avoid skiers on the blues as they cross. but it sure behooves the blue trail skiers to slow down and be very aware at the crossovers. stupid annoying trail design, very mount snow.

interesting that snowdance is a green now. was def a blue when i was there last, probably 10 years ago.

 

[drjeff]

i havent looked at a mount snow trail map in years. WOOF. what a stinker.

that somerset road trail's very existence is annoying. in my opinion, its on the traversing green skier to look uphill and avoid skiers on the blues as they cross. but it sure behooves the blue trail skiers to slow down and be very aware at the crossovers. stupid annoying trail design, very mount snow.

interesting that snowdance is a green now. was def a blue when i was there last, probably 10 years ago.

I always try and stay away from the side of the trail that a merging trail is entering as I near the junction. Just easier when the person merging likely doesn't check uphill before proceeding.

Snowdance went green maybe 3yrs ago, when the added snowmaking to the top couple hundred yards of One More Time and renamed it N.E. Time which allowed beginners to avoid the top short pitch of Snowdance which they now call Snowdance Pitch.

Let's the ski school get beginners up the Canyon lift and get lower ability skiers/riders down the N.E. Time/Snowdance combo.

And a quick history lesson about Somerset Rd. It actually used to be an unpaved auto road road that started around the general Mount Snow base area, criss crossed about a third of the way up the main face and out past Snowdance and One More Time, cutting across the woods and over and down to the base of the North Face (snowcats and snowmobiles and when the snow pack isn't there or is minimal trucks use it as a work road, especially to haul injured skiers/riders out of the Northface and back to the main face) and then over and down to Somerset Reservoir.

It's a nice hike when the snow has melted, and before Vail kicked them out, the High Country Snowmobile Tours operation used a good deal of the route to get their tours out of the base area and down to Somerset Reservoir and some of the VAST network of snowmobile trails

 

[thetrailboss]

So my wife and I are now living south of Boston and have two dogs so short day trips do not leave much to choose from. As a result we have not skied at all this year. Since we are headed to Colorado next week, we wanted to get some kind of skiing in. So we went to Nashoba. It is a cool little ski area with no challenging terrain but good to rail turns and play around. We got the two hour lift ticket and that seems like forever there. My wife calls it a ski gym! Place where you quickly lap runs. Does not take long to get to the top on the lifts, no lift lines and about 30 seconds to the bottom,

That being said, on my last run, I was headed straight down a trail. Another person came off another lift and skis to skiers right across two trails to get to the third outside trail. Now coming from my skiers left. Out of my peripheral vision I see someone coming towards be with no time to react. Result - collision! No one is hurt, but I was upset while flailing because Colorado is a week away and do not want to get hurt on this type of ski area. I feel like when skiing around lots of beginners you have to watch all around you! In the picture below I am green the other is read. I think when crossing trails you should yield to down hill traffic - am I wrong? No one got hurt but it could have been worse if were both skiing faster.

From what I can see, I think he would be in the wrong. Not that it matters.....

People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.

Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.

 

[RiverRunner]

IMO it’s shared fault... on the merging skier to look uphill, but I always have the golden rule as “always stay in control and be able to stop or avoid people or other objects”... including people who merge like idiots at a trail intersection known for people merging like idiots.

 

[Hawk]

No it is clear. if you are coming into a zone with uphill traffic and the trail you are on is considered a traverse or crossing trail. You need to yield to the oncoming traffic. I know Nashoba and exactly where you were. That person coming off the lift at low speed and onto a traverse was totally at fault.

 

[kingslug]

Kind of like merging into traffic. You merge with traffic..it doesn't merge with you.

 

[cdskier]

Kind of like merging into traffic. You merge with traffic..it doesn't merge with you.

I've seen plenty of people that don't understand that concept and think that people already on the highway need to slow down/move/let them in, etc. So I guess it doesn't surprise me that people don't merge properly on trails at ski areas either.

 

[ThatGuy]

Its the fault of the person traversing. Still I always ski assuming someone could collide with me and keep my head on a swivel in congested areas and traverses. At the end of the day if someone hits you and ends your season whose fault it is doesn’t matter.

 

[ne_skier]

Yes, people who are going down a trail always have the right of way to people who are cutting across trails. Great example of people not knowing this would be Howe's Highway at Belleayre, which crosses the runouts of the upper mountain expert trails, a good place to get some speed. People often cluelessly cut across these runs and don't bother to stop or look up, often resulting in a collision or near miss.

 

[cdskier]

Yes, people who are going down a trail always have the right of way to people who are cutting across trails. Great example of people not knowing this would be Howe's Highway at Belleayre, which crosses the runouts of the upper mountain expert trails, a good place to get some speed. People often cluelessly cut across these runs and don't bother to stop or look up, often resulting in a collision or near miss.

I had to look at a Belleayre trail map as I didn't remember a trail with that name. Looked back at some historical trail maps and it seems they named that "trail" about 10 years ago (right around the time I stopped regularly going there). Did they actually widen or re-grade that at all? Or just give a name to what was already there?

 

[RiverRunner]

But if I’m skiing down a run that I know has a trail merge— for example, where Kansas cuts across Airglow at Sunday River, I definitely speed check when I approach the cut-across (as much for self preservation as anything), rather than assume the merger will look. Definitely more the mergers fault, but you should be able to control your speed enough to avoid someone who darts out. If you bomb through the merge thinking “welp, on you to get out of the way”, that’s not really responsible either.

 

[tumbler]

Maybe you should ski banging your poles together so everyone knows you are coming...

 

[Hawk]

But if I’m skiing down a run that I know has a trail merge— for example, where Kansas cuts across Airglow at Sunday River, I definitely speed check when I approach the cut-across (as much for self preservation as anything), rather than assume the merger will look. Definitely more the mergers fault, but you should be able to control your speed enough to avoid someone who darts out. If you bomb through the merge thinking “welp, on you to get out of the way”, that’s not really responsible either.

That is way different from what the OP was describing at Nashoba. His specific case is someone coming right off the lift and usually pretty slow and strait across the down hill run. Kansas is much different as you are trying to keep your speed across the flat to make it to lights out. Still the Kansas skier has the greater responsibility to look. Personally skiing the skiers left on Airglow there is just asking for trouble. I always go on the right side there.

Where it gets way more interesting is the lights out intersection at Vortex. Both skiers are skiing down hill and probably really fast. There I usually just check the speed and look because that one could really hurt.

 

[Hawk]

Maybe you should ski banging your poles together so everyone knows you are coming...

I do that. Usually on Jester or Alyns traverse when I approach and attempt to pass a slower skier. It works.