Why are lessons so expensive?

[jaywbigred]

Can any of the industry guys provide insight here into what accounts for the high cost of lessons?

(I'm note looking to be pointed to an individual mountain's package deals or to other ways to "save" on the cost of lesson; last night I put together a table comparing the costs and I am aware that multi-day deals can bring the cost down significantly. I am also aware that the length of a lesson can vary, so that the price/hour is actually a more hidden statistic. I am just looking for an explanation as to what goes into the cost).

 

[bigbog]

Greedy resort mgmnt... $.01-guess.

 

[ta&idaho]

Businesses charge the price that maximizes their profit, which isn't exclusively a function of their cost. Weekends and holidays are much more expensive than weekdays, for example, even though the cost differences are minimal. My guess is that resorts have figured out that lessons are a way to extract additional revenue from families who are willing to pay it (and I further guess that this problem is more acute at the fancier full-service/destination resorts). I imagine that some skiers value lessons highly, while others place very little value on lessons. To some extent, resorts are able to tailor package deals to appeal to both consumer segments (great package deals for first-timers and better group lesson rates for kids, for example), but their ability to differentiate is limited. Most resorts would rather earn large mark-ups from the consumers that will pay it than have to rely on smaller margins with higher volumes.

 

[rocojerry]

This week, this thread doesn't hold much water, if you are a beginner or know one, get out there -- VT/NH/ME all offering great deals this week

 

[billski]

Businesses charge the price that maximizes their profit, which isn't exclusively a function of their cost. Weekends and holidays are much more expensive than weekdays, for example, even though the cost differences are minimal. My guess is that resorts have figured out that lessons are a way to extract additional revenue from families who are willing to pay it (and I further guess that this problem is more acute at the fancier full-service/destination resorts). I imagine that some skiers value lessons highly, while others place very little value on lessons. To some extent, resorts are able to tailor package deals to appeal to both consumer segments (great package deals for first-timers and better group lesson rates for kids, for example), but their ability to differentiate is limited. Most resorts would rather earn large mark-ups from the consumers that will pay it than have to rely on smaller margins with higher volumes.

Free market economy = supply vs. demand
Weekend = when most people can come. work, school, work.
Lessons = skiing is enough of a hassle, go for one stop shopping. Besides, beginners are usually not savvy enough to shop around.

BTW, a lot of resorts, at least in NH and VT offer discounted learn to ski packages. Many are offering entire learn to ski packages in January.

 

[trtaylor]

Can any of the industry guys provide insight here into what accounts for the high cost of lessons?

(I'm note looking to be pointed to an individual mountain's package deals or to other ways to "save" on the cost of lesson; last night I put together a table comparing the costs and I am aware that multi-day deals can bring the cost down significantly. I am also aware that the length of a lesson can vary, so that the price/hour is actually a more hidden statistic. I am just looking for an explanation as to what goes into the cost).

Here's a typical daily staffing of paid employees at the hill where I teach.

Paid staff:

• Ski School Director
• Director's administrative assistant
• Two dispatchers (lessons provided at two separate locations)
• Two shift supervisors
• Childrens Center Director

Safe to assume their wages are nominal. I am unaware of what benefits the above employees may receive, but as all (except maybe the SSD) are considered part time employees, benefits probably don't extend much past the free ski pass.

And I have no way of knowing just how profitable the ski school is for the mountain. Ski Resort Observer may have some insight into a mountain's target profit margin for services, such as ski school.

 

[billski]

Here's a typical daily staffing of paid employees at the hill where I teach..

I'll ask, I don't know these answers:

Who pays for the new, fancy-schmantzy jackets every year?
Who pays for instructor certification?
All the legal fees to pay for these unreadable release forms?
Additional insurance?

There must be other fixed costs I'm not thinking about.

 

[trtaylor]

Who pays for the new, fancy-schmantzy jackets every year?
My hill will reimburse you for the cost of your jacket after you accumlate 100 hours.

Who pays for instructor certification?
The instructors.

All the legal fees to pay for these unreadable release forms?
The mountain.

Additional insurance?
The mountain.

 

[ta&idaho]

Free market economy = supply vs. demand

To be precise, we're talking only about the supply function.

 

[WWF-VT]

One of the hidden, but larger costs for many mountains is Workers Compensation insurance.

 

[campgottagopee]

Everything about skiing is expensive, so why should private lessons be any different??

 

[jaywbigred]

Everything about skiing is expensive, so why should private lessons be any different??

I asked because it has been cited to me repeatedly as a barrier to entry for people who otherwise are interested in taking up the sport. If you train people well and train them cheaply, don't you get more out of them over the long haul as habitual skiers? I assume mountains have thought about this, so I was just looking for something concrete that results in high costs.

If it really is simply profit taking in a market where some people will pay it, that seems short sighted to me.

 

[campgottagopee]

I asked because it has been cited to me repeatedly as a barrier to entry for people who otherwise are interested in taking up the sport. If you train people well and train them cheaply, don't you get more out of them over the long haul as habitual skiers? I assume mountains have thought about this, so I was just looking for something concrete that results in high costs.

If it really is simply profit taking in a market where some people will pay it, that seems short sighted to me.

Gotcha, interesting point of view. I'd never really thought of it that way.

 

[gorgonzola]

i heard that blue is doing something interesting this year... roving instructors that look for people having problems, stop and give them a few pointers and a discount lesson voucher. sounds like a great idea especially with all the noobs on any given weekend.

 

[Breeze]

n my own experience working in Guest Services, I've seen some big changes in ski school marketing--- specifically aimed at bringing the price down to bring new and LASTING customers to the sport.

January is National Learn To Ski or Ride Month, and lots of resorts/areas have special pricing and programs. Offers and programs will differ from place to place, but there are GREAT deals out there for a limited time. These are targeted marketing programs, some date specific, some limited to reservation only and NOT reflected at the ticket window for a walk-up lesson request.

Many resorts/areas partner with local school districts and municipal recreation departments to provide instruction and fun for their "future" customer base. Capture the local school kids, they get an early release from "school" but they also get 3 + hours of supervised outdoor exercise and small group instruction for 6-8 weeks January- February. Sometimes that is even accompanied by a truly special discounted season pass price, so by the time February vacation roll around, the kids have a " home mountain" to enjoy.

Resorts/areas really try to sell "seasonal" programs for both kids and adults. 6-8-10 week programs that meet on Saturday or Sunday and the hopeful result of that kind of program is a committed season passholder.

Wildcat has a fabulous program for the Never Ever Skier/ Rider age 13+ Pony up $ 219 dollars , and you get 4 2-hour lessons, a full day lift ticket on the beginner slope chair for each lesson day, full day rentals for each lesson day, and at the end of the 4 lessons, you get a full season pass at WIldcat. Stretch it out over month of one day visits, or condense it into a single weekend. It's built that way for a purpose. Huge discount but also a tangible commitment.

So, OK, now all of those kinds of deals are targeted at capturing committed customers. All those deals are ALSO targeted at employing/keeping ski instructors by making sure instructors can come to work every day as scheduled with the expectation of actually having work to do and the expectation of being compensated for their time as they expected or were contracted. The instructors hope their compensable time has been sold as far as possible in advance to people who made an effort to commit., in advance.

Late comers, and walk-ups, will pay rack rate for on-demand services.

As with lodging, airfare and other leisure time pursuits, planning and forethought will be rewarded.

No one really knows whether this will pan out over the long haul but there is a lot of thought being brought into the mix.

Breeze







.

 

[riverc0il]

n my own experience working in Guest Services, I've seen some big changes in ski school marketing--- specifically aimed at bringing the price down to bring new and LASTING customers to the sport.

I have been brewing and stewing on a pending article regarding individual ski area versus its regional competition in reference to lasting customer base and growing the base of skiers. Essentially, the thought that I am working on is how much effort an individual ski area is motivated to grow and develop life long skiers. Obviously, they are VERY motivated if they have a potential repeat customer. But if it is a once off, where is the motivation? Would ski areas do a better job developing new skiers and riders if they KNEW the customer would keep coming back to THEM rather than looking else where? There is a self interest as the skier MIGHT come back. But the thought I am working on is often times, that skier just moves onto the next area. Its more marketing to get them there than services to retain them.

I REALLY need to flesh the idea out more. But the general thought is that ski areas are not doing enough to develop not just lasting customers (self interest) but lasting skiers and riders, no matter where they will eventually go. Areas want to do better than the competition but where is the motivation to really go above and beyond in a major way. And still be profitable? Or should that be a loss leader? Can it be?

Here is a good example from a neighboring activity of skiing: golf. I took it up and tried it but I could never bring myself to pay $50+ for a 45 minute lesson. Completely outrageous. I spent hours upon hours watching video on the net, bought a bunch of books, and played a lot of rounds. A lot of money for sure probably better spent with a lesson or ten. But for $50, I left my misery on the course and I ain't never going back.

How many potential skiers and riders does that happen to because they are not developed and often times because of expense? It would be cool to see the state associations take a more proactive roll in unifying resorts on better learn to ski and developing better ski products at more reasonable rates. When S tried skiing, I was floored at how much places charged for ticket/rental/lesson combo. Even for never evers that would only ski the magic carpet or at best the easiest bunny lift on their first day. They should get the full boat for less than the cost of a full day ticket, IMO, if resorts are serious about sustaining and growing the sliding population.

Okay, but to stewing over that more so I can get my thoughts in better and more logical arrangement.

 

[Skimaine]

i heard that blue is doing something interesting this year... roving instructors that look for people having problems, stop and give them a few pointers and a discount lesson voucher. sounds like a great idea especially with all the noobs on any given weekend.

Definitely an interesting strategy.

Harris has tried a strategy at their Maine golf courses (e.g., Penobscot Valley, SR, Wilson and others). They offer essentially free group lessons. The lessons are scheduled and usually focused on a particular skill. The idea is the same. Get more folks hooked the sport.

 

[Breeze]

Steve, sending a big TY to you for reading and digesting my lame attempt to explain post.. Actually the whole topic is fraught with discord both sides of the cash till which ever way one looks and ELEVENTY!! other people could jump my posterior. You didn't and I so appreciate you thoughtful consideration.

Rock on

Breeze

 

[deadheadskier]

I have been brewing and stewing on a pending article regarding individual ski area versus its regional competition in reference to lasting customer base and growing the base of skiers. Essentially, the thought that I am working on is how much effort an individual ski area is motivated to grow and develop life long skiers. Obviously, they are VERY motivated if they have a potential repeat customer. But if it is a once off, where is the motivation? Would ski areas do a better job developing new skiers and riders if they KNEW the customer would keep coming back to THEM rather than looking else where? There is a self interest as the skier MIGHT come back. But the thought I am working on is often times, that skier just moves onto the next area. Its more marketing to get them there than services to retain them.

I REALLY need to flesh the idea out more. But the general thought is that ski areas are not doing enough to develop not just lasting customers (self interest) but lasting skiers and riders, no matter where they will eventually go. Areas want to do better than the competition but where is the motivation to really go above and beyond in a major way. And still be profitable? Or should that be a loss leader? Can it be?

Here is a good example from a neighboring activity of skiing: golf. I took it up and tried it but I could never bring myself to pay $50+ for a 45 minute lesson. Completely outrageous. I spent hours upon hours watching video on the net, bought a bunch of books, and played a lot of rounds. A lot of money for sure probably better spent with a lesson or ten. But for $50, I left my misery on the course and I ain't never going back.

How many potential skiers and riders does that happen to because they are not developed and often times because of expense? It would be cool to see the state associations take a more proactive roll in unifying resorts on better learn to ski and developing better ski products at more reasonable rates. When S tried skiing, I was floored at how much places charged for ticket/rental/lesson combo. Even for never evers that would only ski the magic carpet or at best the easiest bunny lift on their first day. They should get the full boat for less than the cost of a full day ticket, IMO, if resorts are serious about sustaining and growing the sliding population.

Okay, but to stewing over that more so I can get my thoughts in better and more logical arrangement.

First year for baby boomers entering retirement. There is going to be a lot skiers and riders retiring from the sport in the coming decade due to both living on a fixed income and choosing to participate in sports with lesser demands on the body.

It will be interesting to see what kind of participation our sport has ten years from now. My guess is much less than today despite a population that is expanding.

 

[Breeze]

Steve, sending a big TY to you for reading and digesting my lame attempt to explain post.. Actually the whole topic is fraught with discord both sides of the cash till which ever way one looks and ELEVENTY!! other people could jump my posterior. You didn't and I so appreciate your thoughtful consideration.

Rock on

Breeze