World Cup

[Highway Star]

OK - tell us the route via which trails that would make for a good course. It might work in terms of overall pitch, but I'd think the middle section where it's so flat on Great Eastern would be a non-starter for a DH course.

They would need to widen certain sections and cut a few others.

 

[deadheadskier]

They would need to widen certain sections and cut a few others.


View attachment 21110

Much respect for doing the research. Have you contacted Mike about this plan?

 

[doublediamond]

Oh, Ok.

N.B. these numbers presented here are from a quick glance through Google Earth. So these numbers aren't gospel. I do not know the accuracy of the elevation data in both the horizontal location plotted on coordinates or the accuracy of the elevation data in the z-direction. I also do not know the accuracy of the coordinate data of the aerial imagery. I can get more precise USGS data and open up ArcGIS if you wish.

At Hayride, the first ~1200m averages ~36% and it appears to never drop below ~30% or get above ~40% on any ~100m section. It appears as a pretty consistent slope. I've never been down Hayride. For some reason I've preferred Centerline and like a creature of habit, I've always done Centerline when I've had a choice there. But I imagine that it's narrower and curvier makes it seem steeper. Currently all Hayride homologations have expired so I can't tell where they started/stopped.

With a quick glance at Barron's, the first ~100m is ~45%, and the bottom ~750m averages 19.9% and an average of 27.5% for the SG/GS homologation. Barron's is completely out of contention for SL due to the flat bottom and it barely qualifies for SG and WC events are usually at the upper end of the vertical drop requirements. There are only two WC stop that I can think of off the top of my head that has multiple courses prepared (Kitzbühel and Wengen have unique DH and a unique SL courses) and only one location that has 2 courses used in 2 consecutive weeks (Val d'Isere has unique men's and women's courses; but from the sounds of it, the women's course is being used this year for the men).

 

[doublediamond]

OK - tell us the route via which trails that would make for a good course. It might work in terms of overall pitch, but I'd think the middle section where it's so flat on Great Eastern would be a non-starter for a DH course.

Check out the middle half or so of Kitzbühel.

I believe the proposed map here would be the longest DH length (horizontal) on the Men's calendar if it happened. That's A LOT of snow needed.

 

[Highway Star]

Check out the middle half or so of Kitzbühel.

I believe the proposed map here would be the longest DH length (horizontal) on the Men's calendar if it happened. That's A LOT of snow needed.

It would be shorter than the Lauberhorn race.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauberhorn_ski_races

Nothing wrong with a course that has an extended gliding section in the middle.

 

[deadheadskier]

Oh, Ok.

N.B. these numbers presented here are from a quick glance through Google Earth. So these numbers aren't gospel. I do not know the accuracy of the elevation data in both the horizontal location plotted on coordinates or the accuracy of the elevation data in the z-direction. I also do not know the accuracy of the coordinate data of the aerial imagery. I can get more precise USGS data and open up ArcGIS if you wish.

At Hayride, the first ~1200m averages ~36% and it appears to never drop below ~30% or get above ~40% on any ~100m section. It appears as a pretty consistent slope. I've never been down Hayride. For some reason I've preferred Centerline and like a creature of habit, I've always done Centerline when I've had a choice there. But I imagine that it's narrower and curvier makes it seem steeper. Currently all Hayride homologations have expired so I can't tell where they started/stopped.

With a quick glance at Barron's, the first ~100m is ~45%, and the bottom ~750m averages 19.9% and an average of 27.5% for the SG/GS homologation. Barron's is completely out of contention for SL due to the flat bottom and it barely qualifies for SG and WC events are usually at the upper end of the vertical drop requirements. There are only two WC stop that I can think of off the top of my head that has multiple courses prepared (Kitzbühel and Wengen have unique DH and a unique SL courses) and only one location that has 2 courses used in 2 consecutive weeks (Val d'Isere has unique men's and women's courses; but from the sounds of it, the women's course is being used this year for the men).

Yes Baron's doesn't work for SL. That's why the Taft training slope was rebuilt for this season. Agree you'd be unlikely to ever see two separate venues at the same stop in the East and it's very rare almost anywhere. I mentioned that when I suggested Highline would probably be a better trail for SL than Superstar.

 

[doublediamond]

Ok, Wengen is a tenth of a mile longer.

It's still not an acceptable vertical. The 750 m rule has never been granted due to mountain geography. Ever. Look at the controversy surrounding the '98 Nagano Games. The organizing committee and locals wanted the DH truncated because above-treeline is considered holy land in Shintoism. But FIS refused to budge.

 

[doublediamond]

Why is Highline better? The bottom is flatter than Preston's Pitch. And above the knoll is flatter than Superstar. You'd have to start the SL above the knoll anyways, so it's not like you can have the whole race visible. With Superstar, you could see just shy of 2/3rds of the SL from the bottom. The first timing line was just before the breakover.

 

[deadheadskier]

DD

I could be off, but based upon what I saw on TV and know of Superstar, this seems to be what the approximate length of the course was. I would think a similar comparable length course on Highline would be this length, which would be a bit more consistent in pitch and visible to the spectators top to bottom. It's a lot closer in length looking at a map than what I have in my memory of skiing there.

 

[Highway Star]

Ok, Wengen is a tenth of a mile longer.

It's still not an acceptable vertical. The 750 m rule has never been granted due to mountain geography. Ever. Look at the controversy surrounding the '98 Nagano Games. The organizing committee and locals wanted the DH truncated because above-treeline is considered holy land in Shintoism. But FIS refused to budge.

Lots of people mimicing the NBC-tier reporting I see. (pull out of ARSE)

The Birds of Prey course, pretty much the USA's flagship DH course, is only 753m.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_of_Prey_(ski_course)

Yes, a Killington DH wouldn't be the nastiest steepest tech course, but it would certainly be challenging enough for WC and meet the requirements.

 

[Jully]

would certainly be challenging enough for WC

Just going to leave this here.

 

[jaybird]

Qualified terrain aside .. how do you propose the major resorts previously mentioned can cater to crowds the size K got last weekend?
Most have limited or no large-scale accommodation options and would be hard pressed to move people effectively.

A mid-winter Eastern DH would cripple whatever area was awarded. Net and fence setup for Whiteface Olympics was a massive effort.
Today's standards are substantially tougher.

Chinese Downhill would be the only realistic option around these parts.

 

[Jully]

Qualified terrain aside .. how do you propose the major resorts previously mentioned can cater to crowds the size K got last weekend?
Most have limited or no large-scale accommodation options and would be hard pressed to move people effectively.

A mid-winter Eastern DH would cripple whatever area was awarded. Net and fence setup for Whiteface Olympics was a massive effort.
Today's standards are substantially tougher.

Chinese Downhill would be the only realistic option around these parts.

No where in NH can handle those crowds for sure. In Maine, Sugarloaf cannot handle those crowds, but it would not draw a crowd that size. SL hosted the U.S. Alpine Championships in 2015 and is hosting it again this year and they do a fine job with that. If the goal is crowds though, then anywhere in Maine is a non-starter.

In VT, anywhere north of K would also not draw the same crowds. For what Stowe would draw, I think they would be okay. Stratton is the only other option in VT that could possibly pull it off. Not a 16,000 crowd, but a few thousand would be doable if they bought/rented a crap ton of shuttle buses.

 

[crank]

No where in NH can handle those crowds for sure. In Maine, Sugarloaf cannot handle those crowds, but it would not draw a crowd that size. SL hosted the U.S. Alpine Championships in 2015 and is hosting it again this year and they do a fine job with that. If the goal is crowds though, then anywhere in Maine is a non-starter.

In VT, anywhere north of K would also not draw the same crowds. For what Stowe would draw, I think they would be okay. Stratton is the only other option in VT that could possibly pull it off. Not a 16,000 crowd, but a few thousand would be doable if they bought/rented a crap ton of shuttle buses.

Went to Stratton one day when they were having the U.S. Open Snowboard Competition. We had to park in Jamaica and they bussed us in. Not sure how big the crowd was, but they did a good job getting us in and out. The Competition and crowd was based at the Sunbowl. The rest of the mountain was practically deserted. Only reason we went was my buddy and I both had free passes to burn and it was March so not a lot os season left.

 

[slatham]

After reading all the above its not really a surprise they went with Killington. From terrain, lifts, snowmaking, viewing, accommodations, infrastructure and proximity there really is no other choice. While other mountains could hold such an event, you would be compromising in some way on these criteria. And the proof is in the pudding - it was an awesome event with an incredible crowd and minimal issues.

A couple cautionary comments on version 2.0 - I am sure some people went to the event this year because it was viewed as a "once in a lifetime" occasion. Would the drop off of those attendees be offset by the people who missed it and are kicking themselves?

Would the crowd be significantly smaller if it were not on a holiday weekend (and with limited skiing available)?

 

[Jully]

After reading all the above its not really a surprise they went with Killington. From terrain, lifts, snowmaking, viewing, accommodations, infrastructure and proximity there really is no other choice. While other mountains could hold such an event, you would be compromising in some way on these criteria. And the proof is in the pudding - it was an awesome event with an incredible crowd and minimal issues.

A couple cautionary comments on version 2.0 - I am sure some people went to the event this year because it was viewed as a "once in a lifetime" occasion. Would the drop off of those attendees be offset by the people who missed it and are kicking themselves?

Would the crowd be significantly smaller if it were not on a holiday weekend (and with limited skiing available)?

The crowd would almost certainly be smaller. I don't think anyone thinks that every year K holds a world cup event they will draw a record breaking crowd... that's why its called a record. Also the holiday weekend certainly helped. It'll be a huge crowd every time, but not 16,000 haha.

 

[drjeff]

Additionally, I think that if the chance to offer a mid/late season race was extended to K that it wouldn't be as widely well received and would present far more logistical nightmares with skier/rider traffic around the resort during the days leading up to the races, the race days themselves, and then a few days after the races to break down all of the fencing, bleachers, TV broadcast equipment, etc.

As anyone who was there over the weekend plainly saw, there was no way anyone could ski/ride around KBL from the K-1 loading area to the Superstar loading area. Essentially the majority of the Superstar pod would need to be closed down for a few days during a mid season race for course prep and racers training on Skyelark and/or Bittersweet as well. You couldn't ski down from the top of Snowshed to KBL either.

Early season, logistically, works so much better for K. And I'm guessing that in reality, ski wise the only thing that they wish that they had going in addition for the general public was to have the Ramshead lift spinning, a few more trails off of Snowdon and maybe the Canyon Quad as well.

 

[Smellytele]

Surprised that Superstar still isn't open but I guess they need to break all the stuff down so it should be this weekend.

 

[JimG.]

Was told it would take 3-4 days to till SS into retail shape.

 

[andrec10]

Was told it would take 3-4 days to till SS into retail shape.

It is solid ice right now! Most people would need a diaper to ski it in its current shape.