Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[Edd]

Every ski area I have been to the bar/restaurant has been open. Some you may need reservations for but they have been open.

Not in VT, methinks.

 

[cdskier]

Not in VT, methinks.

Can't speak for all of VT, but the bars/restaurants on-mountain at Sugarbush are certainly open. Yes reservations are required in many cases, but they're open.

 

[Edd]

Can't speak for all of VT, but the bars/restaurants on-mountain at Sugarbush are certainly open. Yes reservations are required in many cases, but they're open.

Okemo had them closed midwinter this season, so maybe it’s a Vail thing?

 

[rebel1916]

Not in VT, methinks.

Walked into bars at Bolton and Jay.

 

[jimmywilson69]

bar was open at Vail owned Roundtop. Reservations required and per PA current COVID rules no actual Bar seating

 

[Glenn]

Count me out on both of those.

If anything, the lodges need more cubbies/lockers/storage space. Some mountains have a ton, but too many have none. They should enforce no bags on/under tables. There are some days when booting up in the lodge is infinitely better than at the car.

Also my wife is a non skier and occasionally tags along on my ski trips and reads in the lodge. If any ski area ever has time limits for reasons outside of covid I will never give them my business again. I agree it's obnoxious when one person hogs an entire table and that should be dealt with, but there should absolutely never be a "reservation system" for the main seating area of a lodge after the pandemic is over.

I'm sure you could "handle all that" when your family can just go back to your condo if this stuff were to continue permanently. Some of us don't have that luxury.

Agreed. More space to store stuff or better bag checks.

 

[Smellytele]

Can't speak for all of VT, but the bars/restaurants on-mountain at Sugarbush are certainly open. Yes reservations are required in many cases, but they're open.

Magic as well

 

[xlr8r]

I agree with those saying storing bags under tables should be banned. Lodges should have cubbies for all bag storage. Also the part of the problem with table hoarding, is the layout and the size of the tables. Far too many lodges have tables placed way to close to one another, making it difficult for people to move around and have enough space to boot up. Also far too many lodges tend to have tables sized for about 6-8 people, but most ski gourps are 2-4 people.. It would be better to have more small tables for the non skiers to sit at and for small groups.

In general most lodges in NE are just overcrowded, and resorts in the past have had little incentive to do anything about it.

 

[ss20]

In general most lodges in NE are just overcrowded, and resorts in the past have had little incentive to do anything about it.

I agree with the first bit about lodges being overcrowded...can't say I agree with the second part. Off the top of my head I can name tons of mountains that have expanded and/or added the number of base lodges in the past dozen or so years... Mohawk expanded, Okemo Jackson Gore, Catamount totally rebuilt one and added another, Killington is working on replacing the K1 lodge.

I think lot of resorts are seeing that F/B can be a huuuuge profit center (higher than it already was) and people will pay stupid prices for it, a-la Vail Resorts. Put in some granite countertops, make the staff wear classic chef hats, put the grill in front so people can see the food being made, and boom...that $8 burger that was $6 in profit is now a $12 burger with $10 in profit. Classic example being the Killington Peak Lodge.

Also there's the fact that a craptop of these base lodges are out-of-code, inefficient in layout, hodge-podged structures that have been added on several times since their original construction in the 60s, and are literally falling apart. There's gonna be a lot of replacements in the next dozen years.

 

[1dog]

I agree with those saying storing bags under tables should be banned. Lodges should have cubbies for all bag storage. Also the part of the problem with table hoarding, is the layout and the size of the tables. Far too many lodges have tables placed way to close to one another, making it difficult for people to move around and have enough space to boot up. Also far too many lodges tend to have tables sized for about 6-8 people, but most ski gourps are 2-4 people.. It would be better to have more small tables for the non skiers to sit at and for small groups.

In general most lodges in NE are just overcrowded, and resorts in the past have had little incentive to do anything about it.

It all makes sense ( overcrowding solutions) until one realizes that it's 12-15 weekends a year that the lodges are too crowded. The other 124 days they are empty or sufficient.

Out west is different as they are destination resorts for people the world over. similar to airlines, ski areas are limited to weather, economy, and other things out of their control. Using them off-season for weddings or town meetings conferences or basically anything to offset the cost of maintaining/taxes/upkeep/etc. can mitigate the cost and justify the larger builds but otherwise, it's a 20 day year problem.

 

[raisingarizona]

If it's that hard to not be an asshole then you probably shouldn't still be posting. But here you are.

I can't believe someone actually thought it would be a good idea to write that AND click the submit button.

My point was that skiing is really hard on the knees. If it’s that hard to walk for a little bit across a parking lot because of knee problems then skiing isn’t very good for em. Toughen up snowflake.

 

[raisingarizona]

Easy for you to say. I've had to give up caving, rock 'n ice climbing, and backpacking because of my knees. I'll be dammed if I'm gonna give up skiing. As long as I can glide I'm good.

Good for you then. F it! I already responded to someone’s reaction to my post and we all gotta do what we gotta do.

 

[raisingarizona]

It's not a restaurant, it's a ski lodge. And for the record, in 22 years of skiing including being at places like Wachusett, Okemo, Mt Snow, etc on holidays, I have never once had to stand to eat food so cut the bullshit.

The sense of entitlement and selfishness in this thread is fucking mind boggling.

Entitlement? I think the idea that it’s ok to camp all day long at a table with piles of gear on it would be a fantastic display of entitlement dip sh$t. I’ve definitely seen this as a problem where people trying to sit and eat for a half hour cannot find a table.

 

[abc]

My point was that skiing is really hard on the knees. If it’s that hard to walk for a little bit across a parking lot because of knee problems then skiing isn’t very good for em. Toughen up snowflake.

I don't know how you reach THAT conclusion!

First, skiing doesn't have to be tough on knees if you got the "right" technique. (yes, there was a time I thought knee pain and skiing are inseparable. But not any more. These days, I can ski steeps and bumps all day and, despite my knees being a decade older, they're happy to handle what I ask them of)

The opposite is true about walking in ski boots. Ski boots aren't designed for efficient walking. For example, there's no shock absorbing on the sole like regular shoes. That transmit a lot more of the impact of each step to the knees. Whilst on snow, the ski acts as shock absorber.

Further more, ski boots are usually tight fitting around the ankle, putting excessive force on the knee when walking on hard grounds, more than skiing itself.

So those "few hundred steps" from the far end of the parking lot can put significant stress on knees when compare to all day skiing with efficient technique. Why trash one's knees by walking when one can save them for skiing?

 

[kbroderick]

I don't know how you reach THAT conclusion!

First, skiing doesn't have to be tough on knees if you got the "right" technique. (yes, there was a time I thought knee pain and skiing are inseparable. But not any more. These days, I can ski steeps and bumps all day and, despite my knees being a decade older, they're happy to handle what I ask them of)

The opposite is true about walking in ski boots. Ski boots aren't designed for efficient walking. For example, there's no shock absorbing on the sole like regular shoes. That transmit a lot more of the impact of each step to the knees. Whilst on snow, the ski acts as shock absorber.

Further more, ski boots are usually tight fitting around the ankle, putting excessive force on the knee when walking on hard grounds, more than skiing itself.

So those "few hundred steps" from the far end of the parking lot can put significant stress on knees when compare to all day skiing with efficient technique. Why trash one's knees by walking when one can save them for skiing?

Lost track...I don't think you're the original poster with knee issues exacerbated by walking in ski boots, but...if that were my issue, I'd definitely be in an AT boot with a rockered sole and a good range of motion in walk mode. They don't ski as well as a race boot, but on anything short of race skis and a very firm surface, they'll work nearly as well (or as well), and they eliminate the excessive knee stress walking across the lot. They also tend to be on the lighter side of the spectrum.

 

[abc]

Lost track...I don't think you're the original poster with knee issues exacerbated by walking in ski boots, but...if that were my issue, I'd definitely be in an AT boot with a rockered sole and a good range of motion in walk mode. They don't ski as well as a race boot, but on anything short of race skis and a very firm surface, they'll work nearly as well (or as well), and they eliminate the excessive knee stress walking across the lot. They also tend to be on the lighter side of the spectrum.

You're right. I'm not the original poster with knee issues. My knees are in pretty darn good shape. Still, I found walking in ski boots really annoying. That's not to mention it's not good for the boot itself. So I will avoid as much as I can.

If I expect a long walk, I put on a pair of CatTrax thingy. That's helps enormously with the shock absorbing part. But the few times I didn't have the CatTrac, my entire body feel the impact of each step!

Bottom line, ski boots are optimized for skiing! Walking is really something that should only be done sparingly. And for anyone who's already gone any knee issues to begin with, avoid at all cost.

 

[raisingarizona]

I’ve been walking in ski boots for 35 years now and I’ve never noticed it as being weird or uncomfortable. I’ll tour all day in them doing fairly technical ridge line hikes with 3 and 4th class scrambling with no issues.

maybe some of you folks need to get a better fitting boot?

maybe them office jobs have made your palms a bit too soft?

 

[raisingarizona]

I don't know how you reach THAT conclusion!

First, skiing doesn't have to be tough on knees if you got the "right" technique. (yes, there was a time I thought knee pain and skiing are inseparable. But not any more. These days, I can ski steeps and bumps all day and, despite my knees being a decade older, they're happy to handle what I ask them of)

The opposite is true about walking in ski boots. Ski boots aren't designed for efficient walking. For example, there's no shock absorbing on the sole like regular shoes. That transmit a lot more of the impact of each step to the knees. Whilst on snow, the ski acts as shock absorber.

Further more, ski boots are usually tight fitting around the ankle, putting excessive force on the knee when walking on hard grounds, more than skiing itself.

So those "few hundred steps" from the far end of the parking lot can put significant stress on knees when compare to all day skiing with efficient technique. Why trash one's knees by walking when one can save them for skiing?

BS. Skiing is still a high impact sport for knees and other joints. If a walk across a parking lot is too much for someone they should probably think about less impactful activities, or I would at least.

 

[abc]

ll tour all day in them doing fairly technical ridge line hikes with 3 and 4th class scrambling with no issues.

Sounds like you're in touring boots, not downhill boots.

If so, you don't have the experience to talk about walking in downhill boots.

Skiing is still a high impact sport for knees and other joints.

What "other" joints? Elbow?

Perhaps you should try some boots that are more suited for skiing than walking?

 

[Zermatt]

BS. Skiing is still a high impact sport for knees and other joints. If a walk across a parking lot is too much for someone they should probably think about less impactful activities, or I would at least.

You're doing it wrong then. Casually skiing a groomed run requires almost no added effort versus just standing in place and certainly no added impact to my knees.