Trailboss' Biggest Winners and Losers of 2009-2010

[2knees]

OK, well then you know that people are really upset because Killington used to close in June and now closes in April. That's more than a week...and I think that is a good reason to be upset. I also think that you're probably the only homeowner I know at Killington who is not upset at the short season.

you don't know when to quit. but keep digging, it's very entertaining.

nobody has brought up a june closing as a valid argument. pumping may 2nd and closing a week early seems to be the real beef. Franks opinion is obviously that one week doesnt make a year. I can totally understand his point. I would think any rational person, even if they disagree with the one week delta, can at least understand where he is coming from.

 

[thetrailboss]

you don't know when to quit. but keep digging, it's very entertaining.

nobody has brought up a june closing as a valid argument. pumping may 2nd and closing a week early seems to be the real beef. Franks opinion is obviously that one week doesnt make a year. I can totally understand his point. I would think any rational person, even if they disagree with the one week delta, can at least understand where he is coming from.

And an ad hominem attack makes lots of rational sense! :roll:

Frank did not understand the point regarding why I mentioned the Killington re-branding, or why folks are upset about losing one week of skiing. I bring up the open until June comment because that was the old Killington brand and this season folks at least got the impression in here that Killington's revival of "The Beast" mentality was a commitment to trying to extend the season to something longer than in the recent past. So when they marketed "open until May 2nd," sold season passes under that mantra, and made the snow to do it, folks thought that there was some credibility to that revival of the old philsophy. But they backed out at the last minute and folks are upset. Folks were hoping that they'd at least get what was being offered and it did not come through.

I understand where he is coming from, but I can't be as dismissive to the anger on the other side which was used to October-June skiing at Killington and had the impression, rightly or wrongly, that Killington was once again heading that way again. Maybe not June this year, but certainly committing to be open longer than in the past. It didn't happen.

 

[riverc0il]

Any one else have any thoughts on this seasons winners and losers? Additions to the list? Any one over looked? Surprised the Sundown crew is not calling for TBs head for leaving off Sundown. :lol:

 

[deadheadskier]

I'll give Ragged a B. Despite the lack of bumps and the glades only being open for about 3 weeks, the groomers skied fantastic all year; this without a single resurfacing snowmaking effort that I can recall. From everyone I spoke with there, it was their busiest season to date.

 

[mondeo]

Are we talking about the same poster? I only saw one, (maybe two?) K report from BMM all season. And while BMM is a total Sugarbush homer, I think he can be objective about bumps. The guy loves bumps more than he loves the Bush. When I talk about the usual complainers, I am talking about all the whinny pass holders.

Usual complainer was too strong, but I've never read him say anything good about present-day Killington. It's like a Red Sox fan talking about the Yankees, or vice versa. Re-reading my post, I was a bit too harsh myself.

To be clear, I have nothing against BMM personally. After all, I have plenty of Red Sox and Yankee fans as friends.

 

[snoseek]

After all, I have plenty of Red Sox and Yankee fans as friends.

Are you saying you're a Mets fan?

 

[mondeo]

Are you saying you're a Mets fan?

Hell no. Blue Jays!

 

[frankm938]

And an ad hominem attack makes lots of rational sense! :roll:

Frank did not understand the point regarding why I mentioned the Killington re-branding, or why folks are upset about losing one week of skiing. I bring up the open until June comment because that was the old Killington brand and this season folks at least got the impression in here that Killington's revival of "The Beast" mentality was a commitment to trying to extend the season to something longer than in the recent past. So when they marketed "open until May 2nd," sold season passes under that mantra, and made the snow to do it, folks thought that there was some credibility to that revival of the old philsophy. But they backed out at the last minute and folks are upset. Folks were hoping that they'd at least get what was being offered and it did not come through.

I understand where he is coming from, but I can't be as dismissive to the anger on the other side which was used to October-June skiing at Killington and had the impression, rightly or wrongly, that Killington was once again heading that way again. Maybe not June this year, but certainly committing to be open longer than in the past. It didn't happen.

you're right, i did miss part of your point about the logo. i didnt realize you feel that the logo means skiing until june and not just that the logo itself is a bad one.
but i can tell you that i know a lot of homeowners at K and most of them dont really care that we dont ski until june anymore. it might not seem that way by reading the posts on internet forums, but most homeowners dont post here so it is easy to have a slanted opinion of killington if you just read about it and dont ski there a lot.
my major point is being missed as well. its not to defend K for closing early, because i would have liked another wknd of skiing as well (i just didnt think it was that big of deal and it didnt ruin my season, i went mtn biking instead)
my point is that killington gets attacked for things they do much harder than other areas. why should that matter to me? because at this point it feel that the killington management/ownership has stopped listening to anything that is said on message boards. another mtn that isnt taking constant attacks might actually listen if they hear that people would like a certain thing to change about the area. where killington probably feels like people will bitch no matter what they do, so they are gonna run it there way, if you like it great, if not go somewhere else.

many of the tree areas at K need to be thinned and low branches need to be cut because much of the tree skiing cant be done without having to stop a find a new line the whole way down the trail.
OL should have bumps top to bottom (rope line seeded, tree line natural) and only see a groomer after a thaw/freeze
maybe they would listen if the ideas/complaints were realistic and people didnt trash every move they make. maybe they wouldnt. but right now i cant blame them for not listening to the bitch fest on the ski forums

 

[thetrailboss]

but i can tell you that i know a lot of homeowners at K and most of them dont really care that we dont ski until june anymore. it might not seem that way by reading the posts on internet forums, but most homeowners dont post here so it is easy to have a slanted opinion of killington if you just read about it and dont ski there a lot.

I am surprised to hear that what you see is different than what the vocal posters say here. You're right though that folks here are a self-selecting group.

my point is that killington gets attacked for things they do much harder than other areas. why should that matter to me? because at this point it feel that the killington management/ownership has stopped listening to anything that is said on message boards. another mtn that isnt taking constant attacks might actually listen if they hear that people would like a certain thing to change about the area. where killington probably feels like people will bitch no matter what they do, so they are gonna run it there way, if you like it great, if not go somewhere else.

maybe they would listen if the ideas/complaints were realistic and people didnt trash every move they make. maybe they wouldnt. but right now i cant blame them for not listening to the bitch fest on the ski forums

I think that things have gone that way too.

 

[Vortex]

Frank very interesting post. do have have the same feeling towards the early season as you do the late season. ie is opening a little later is okay? I think you are right on that the Internet people are not the only ones around. You fit into the happy property owner mode pretty well. Good perspective well presented.

 

[ERJ-145CA]

It was the best conditions I've seen in NJ. It's just a shame it warmed up so fast after the last big snowstorm, if the temps stayed seasonal the NJ season could have been a couple weeks longer.

 

[frankm938]

Frank very interesting post. do have have the same feeling towards the early season as you do the late season. ie is opening a little later is okay? I think you are right on that the Internet people are not the only ones around. You fit into the happy property owner mode pretty well. Good perspective well presented.

pretty much... if they miss there target date by a few days, i dont care. if they dont open until mid-december, ill be pissed. no matter where you ski in the east, the early season skiing consists of a few blue square cruisers. if you're lucky you will find a few bumps, but no trees, no steep runs and no long bump runs (unless they get a storm). so i end up getting bored after couple hours anyway (once the thrill of clicking in to my bindings for the first time wears off)
as long as they blow snow when its cold enough to blow it, im not going to bust there balls for an exact date to open like is demanded here on AZ or over on kzone.
overall, im happy with the early season snowmaking and how quickly they expand terrain although i would like to see outer limits move up on the priority list. some early season seeded bumps would be nice also...

 

[Vortex]

fair enough. thanks for the reply.

 

[Rogman]

Killington: closing a week early, no problem. Promising May 2nd and not delivering for any valid reason, huge problem. Most, if not all, of the crappy K decisions came out of Utah. I'm talking logo, closing, etc. Nyberg did a terrific job. Keep him, fire Cumming.

 

[thetrailboss]

Well, isn't Cumming the owner?

 

[Geoff]

On Killington:
This has all been hashed through before but Killington as a town and Killington as a ski resort has a big problem right now. They have experienced a steady year-over-year decline in traffic counts on the Access Road and sales, lodging, & meals revenue. Midweek business has dropped off to nothing. The local real estate market is a disaster so there is zero chance SP Land will spend a penny developing a base village when residential housing in town is being sold below replacement cost. Nobody is going to want to buy that 30,000 square feet of commercial space at $400/foot when business levels are trending in the wrong direction.

The question is how to bring the people back?

The first thing that has to be fixed is the crap experience for the novice / low-intermediate walkup day ticket people. Snowshed/Rams Head are a huge hassle on weekends & holidays. It's both inadequate infrastructure and running short staffed so the resort falls over when it is stressed at busy times.

The second thing that has to be fixed is the apres ski. The state police are there arresting the tourists. The businesses on the Access Road don't fund viable public transportation. The whole "Bourbon Street North" thing is a competitive advantage but it needs to be marketed and the town, the resort, and the business owners need to cooperate to get people out of their cars and fund an every 10 minute bus loop with enclosed bus stops like at a real resort.

Take full advantage of that 250" of natural snow. Thin out the woods Jay Peak style so you can ski pretty much anywhere. Do the interconnect initially with surface lifts and glade skiing.



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Until they shot their dick off by closing early, I thought Killington had a dramatically improved year. I'd give them a "B+/A-" from an operations point of view. Their efforts at marketing the resort get a "D-". "The Beast" is not appropriate for attracting $82.00 day ticket people. They need to market their competitive advantages. They have lost so many customers that it is no longer particularly crowded during holiday periods. They need to talk up the 250" in the markets where they are losing customers to southern VT, Maine, and NH. Closing a week early days before the early season pass cutoff date was a marketing disaster.

 

[deadheadskier]

Killington doesn't have a town shuttle? I didn't know that. I believe Stowe's shuttle runs about once every half hour so, maybe even hourly. I know it doesn't run late at night, so it doesn't help the bar patrons. Local taxi service is decent, but expensive. DUI's are an issue in that town. Almost everyone I know has gotten one.

 

[Vortex]

I love the mountain explorer at the River.

Hits the access road bars and rest, downtown bethel and a few locations on the hill.

Kids can ride if safe and it helps with the late night crowd. Runs like 7 am till around 1 am in season. Its biggest user seems to be employees of the mountain. You can be a ski bum and not need a car. On long visits where one of us goes home, we can bring just one car and still get around.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm pretty certain the Stowe shuttle stops around 11:30. Does the SR shuttle run just the access road until 1 or does it run to Bethel that late as well? I've never partied at SR, so I'm not sure what the scene is like up there.

 

[Vortex]

I think it leaves bethel back to the mountain at 1.30 and leaves the mountain 1am, actually could it could be the other way around. I am back by 9.30 most nights anyway. I am a first turns guy. The river gets nailed for its socail night life and we laugh. its what you make it and its no Killington by any means,