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Ascutney Mountain Sold!

AdironRider

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Or it would be a farming community like it was and still is. There are also some large industrial facilities west of town that provide many more jobs than a couple serving positions and bike shops.

If Fruita is your best example (I live out West as well man, spend 3 weeks a year in Moab/Fruita riding) then its definitely not the economic driver everyone claims. Fruita does have a large mtn bike presence, but look at the rest of the place. Its not great.

Most mtn bikers are like me, and I suspect you, where we roll in, give our lodging dollars in the form of a grand ten bucks to the BLM to camp(FEDS, not local b&b's), buy a couple 30 packs and some bike tubes, then roll out.
 

snoseek

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Or it would be a farming community like it was and still is. There are also some large industrial facilities west of town that provide many more jobs than a couple serving positions and bike shops.

If Fruita is your best example (I live out West as well man, spend 3 weeks a year in Moab/Fruita riding) then its definitely not the economic driver everyone claims. Fruita does have a large mtn bike presence, but look at the rest of the place. Its not great.


Ok heard but maybe Burke itself is a better example. pretty much everyone in town in summer is there to ride and its because they have a large network of trails AND lift served biking...something for everybody. Well maybe not everyone as its mostly just buff singletrack, unlike the STAB trails which IMO have a better variety (although overall less miles and no lift served). I really think being closer to more major metros and this would make that area very competetive
 

AdironRider

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I think the NEK has done some great things with the MTB scene, no doubt, but its still not the saving grace economic engine you claim.

I suspect the college, whatever industry remains in Newport, and other factors drive more economic activity than mtb, even in the summer in the NEK. Mainly the college though.

Not to say the MTB tourists do absolutely nothing, but its not something a sustainable economy is based on. Food service and retail? Isnt that the problem with our current economic recovery?
 

thetrailboss

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Ok heard but maybe Burke itself is a better example. pretty much everyone in town in summer is there to ride and its because they have a large network of trails AND lift served biking...something for everybody. Well maybe not everyone as its mostly just buff singletrack, unlike the STAB trails which IMO have a better variety (although overall less miles and no lift served). I really think being closer to more major metros and this would make that area very competetive

The lift served at Burke, though cool, is still fairly limited. And I don't think it's a huge money maker. I would imagine that this year with the Burke/KT split that the lift served aspect will be flat if not lower.

I think the NEK has done some great things with the MTB scene, no doubt, but its still not the saving grace economic engine you claim.

Not to say the MTB tourists do absolutely nothing, but its not something a sustainable economy is based on. Food service and retail? Isnt that the problem with our current economic recovery?

Bingo. Vermont's problem is that the "blue collar" and middle class jobs are disappearing left and right and are being replaced with (small) retail and low paying tourism jobs. Those jobs don't pay enough to let one buy a house let alone pay the taxes.

Burke does indeed love the bikers and their money, but their dollars are only benefitting a few restaurants, campgrounds, grocery stores and gas stations, etc. They are not really doing much else.

I suspect the college, whatever industry remains in Newport, and other factors drive more economic activity than mtb, even in the summer in the NEK. Mainly the college though.

The college does help. One issue that the VT College System has is that, believe it or not, they get very little state funding. In fact I think they are the least funded system per capita in the nation. Imagine what it would be like if LSC had enough funds to meet its potential--especially with some of their programs.

There's not much left in Newport or St. Jay for manufacturing. Now that Vermont Tap & Die has left Lyndonville, there's not much in Lyndonville either.
 

deadheadskier

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I wonder what would have happened had Okemo purchased Ascutney. (or if they ever even entertained the thought). That would be a pretty compelling "family terrain" oriented product having the trio of Okemo, Ascutney and Sunapee all together and within less than an hour of each other. Easy access from both the Boston and Hartford/Springfield markets.
 

skiNEwhere

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I wonder what would have happened had Okemo purchased Ascutney. (or if they ever even entertained the thought). That would be a pretty compelling "family terrain" oriented product having the trio of Okemo, Ascutney and Sunapee all together and within less than an hour of each other. Easy access from both the Boston and Hartford/Springfield markets.

Hmmmm..... (Rubs chin)
 

VTKilarney

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Small ski areas have always struggled and scores upon scores have closed. What troubles me is that we have recently seen the closure of bigger ski areas like Ascutney and Tenney. I don't like that trend. Those hills may not have been the biggest, but it not good to see that amount of terrain go away forever.
 

AdironRider

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The lift served at Burke, though cool, is still fairly limited. And I don't think it's a huge money maker. I would imagine that this year with the Burke/KT split that the lift served aspect will be flat if not lower.



Bingo. Vermont's problem is that the "blue collar" and middle class jobs are disappearing left and right and are being replaced with (small) retail and low paying tourism jobs. Those jobs don't pay enough to let one buy a house let alone pay the taxes.

Burke does indeed love the bikers and their money, but their dollars are only benefitting a few restaurants, campgrounds, grocery stores and gas stations, etc. They are not really doing much else.



The college does help. One issue that the VT College System has is that, believe it or not, they get very little state funding. In fact I think they are the least funded system per capita in the nation. Imagine what it would be like if LSC had enough funds to meet its potential--especially with some of their programs.

There's not much left in Newport or St. Jay for manufacturing. Now that Vermont Tap & Die has left Lyndonville, there's not much in Lyndonville either.

I mention the college primarily because of the reasons you mention, they provide (pure guessing here on the exact number) a couple hundred jobs at real middle class wages, even higher for tenured professors and administration. They live there year round as well.
 

thetrailboss

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I mention the college primarily because of the reasons you mention, they provide (pure guessing here on the exact number) a couple hundred jobs at real middle class wages, even higher for tenured professors and administration. They live there year round as well.

Indeed. They are a key employer.
 

mister moose

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That's sad news.

I would think the viability of Ascutney rests in not competing directly with Okemo and Killington. They could never provide the same kind of grooming and snowmaking. As such, they never, ever, should have put in the high speed quad. It needed to remain a far cheaper alternative that was open when the weather allowed, not by huge snowmaking expense. It needed to retain fixed grip lifts.

Ascutney also faced a long term problem that started in the 70's. Previously, other resorts did not have much advantage in grooming or snowmaking. As those technologies emerged and grew, the price tag to participate grew and grew. Bigger resorts drew a lot of traffic away. Also, as I-91 was completed into the state's interior, the rest of Vermont's roads improved as well. Rte 100, 103, 9 and 30 are in far better shape now. This allows shorter driving times to Ascutney's competitors, eroding what was once a large advantage.

I saw a number somewhere that listed Ascutney's snowfall at 80 inches. What ever the correct number is, it is a lot less than Killington.

Another problem now is that several people overpaid for the resort. The value in the mind of the owners and the town is inflated. It cannot operate profitably with that high a mortgage and that high of a property tax bill. Unfortunately, that conclusion will only sink in to the owners and the town too late.

If you could buy the hill and base for a dollar, could you install a few used lifts and run the place profitably? I bet the answer is yes. So the question is what is the real value of the area that allows a dependable profit to re-invest, make it through lean years, and pay a return to the investors.
 

Quietman

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Interesting side note, I would NEVER have guessed who bought Ascutney's lifts.

newenglandskihistory.com says that it is Pat's Peak.

"In late spring 2014, Pats Peak reportedly purchased and removed the remaining lifts at Ascutney, VT, perhaps signalling future lift upgrades"
 

thetrailboss

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Interesting side note, I would NEVER have guessed who bought Ascutney's lifts.

newenglandskihistory.com says that it is Pat's Peak.

"In late spring 2014, Pats Peak reportedly purchased and removed the remaining lifts at Ascutney, VT, perhaps signalling future lift upgrades"

Really?
 

AdironRider

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Why exactly would you not have guessed that. They are pretty similar places for all intensive purposes.

Not many big dogs are buying decades old fixed grips.
 

xwhaler

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It is too bad that despite all the infrastructure on site (hotel, condos, not super old lifts) and close to the highway that no one was interested in operating Ascutney as an alternative to Okemo or Sunapee.
I'll remember the 1 day I skied Ascutney back in 2007 as we skied boot deep powder, had the place to ourselves, and the terrain was pretty fun. More Magic style terrain than Okemo or Sunapee.

Always look at Ascutney Peak when I'm in the area and wonder what could have been if that had ever been developed to the top.
 
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skiNEwhere

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I can't help but wonder if the installation of the HSQ sealed their fate, or at least sped it up. It really didn't access any new terrain, and when you got off the lift there were only 2 trail options, a double black or a blue, which as I remember was super icy by noon.

When I was there I remember the HSQ didn't even run that fast, I mentioned this to the liftie at the bottom who told me that they never ran it at top speed to prevent crowding at the top. Sounds like poor planning on managements part.

I skied ascutney in 2001, I heard that in later years they rarely ran that lift (can anyone confirm this?)I'm not sure if the installation of the HSQ peaked any additional interest, but it almost seemed like management had an "if we build it, they will come" mentality when planning this.
 
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