Back to the King of Spring debate

[skiadikt]

+1 I agree if I'm a season pass holder I totally understand and want the hill to make money not louse it, I don't want to see more Bobcats.

not sure how bobcat is relevant to this discussion. are u saying bobcat closed because it was run irresponsibly. don't remember them staying open til june ...

skied there in the 80's and enjoyed it but think they had one sno-gun and 2 t-bars some of which were broken. not exactly competitive. to be honest, i'd love to see someone buy them and reopen. if marketed correctly, think there is a niche for that type of thing as more skiers are interested in the natural sno experience (mrg & magic).

 

[SIKSKIER]

Location:lost
Pretty much sums it up.

 

[ScottySkis]

not sure how bobcat is relevant to this discussion. are u saying bobcat closed because it was run irresponsibly. don't remember them staying open til june ...

skied there in the 80's and enjoyed it but think they had one sno-gun and 2 t-bars some of which were broken. not exactly competitive. to be honest, i'd love to see someone buy them and reopen. if marketed correctly, think there is a niche for that type of thing as more skiers are interested in the natural sno experience (mrg & magic).

No I just don't want to more hills closed, and what Gillian wants unfortunately to have hills open in June will not work any more for most.

 

[andyzee]

The only hill to be open first and closed last should be the king (Killington) all other should fall in line and open after the king and close before the king. To do otherwise should lead to the ultimate punishment, demise.

Long Live The King!

 

[Conrad]

If there was a "King of April" category, it would be Sugarloaf. But I guess King of extreme early and late skiing skiing goes to Killington.

*edit* by extreme I mean incredible, not so extreme that it is trivial.

Let me just say if Killington ends up shutting down only one or two weeks after Sugarloaf, I'm going to be all over this. :lol:

 

[thetrailboss]

Stowe is a corporate playground subsidized by the corporation. Did you really think they were making money up there.

Right. Stowe's parent, the former AIG, always made it clear that the resort had to at least break even or make a certain profit. It is what it is. In recent years Stowe has been open well into April, but not longer than that. Their clientele does not ski that late.

And folks can grumble, but Stowe is probably one of the best run ski areas in the east. Their management does a good job and they have good equipment and infrastructure to do it with.

 

[thetrailboss]

Now to the thread, if I recall correctly, a very vocal member was criticizing other areas for opening only weekends in the fall and saying that should not count. Now should that same logic apply here? I mean Killington IS only open weekends now....

 

[steamboat1]

Right. Stowe's parent, the former AIG, always made it clear that the resort had to at least break even or make a certain profit. It is what it is. In recent years Stowe has been open well into April, but not longer than that. Their clientele does not ski that late.

And folks can grumble, but Stowe is probably one of the best run ski areas in the east. Their management does a good job and they have good equipment and infrastructure to do it with.

AIG & now it's subsidiary has invested nearly 6X's the amount of money in Stowe as POWDR paid for K 5 years ago in the same time period. And they already owned the place. Don't get me wrong I love Stowe & what they're doing with the area but being profitable is not a priority.

 

[Rambo]

Now to the thread, if I recall correctly, a very vocal member was criticizing other areas for opening only weekends in the fall and saying that should not count. Now should that same logic apply here? I mean Killington IS only open weekends now....

Killington is open FRIDAYS and weekends... SO IT COUNTS!

 

[MadPatSki]

Killington is open FRIDAYS and weekends... SO IT COUNTS!

MSS is spinning lifts today, tomorrow and this weekend....but only open to general public on weekends.
Should spinning lifts without allowing the general admission count or not? Just asking?
:blink:

 

[deadheadskier]

Right. Stowe's parent, the former AIG, always made it clear that the resort had to at least break even or make a certain profit. It is what it is. In recent years Stowe has been open well into April, but not longer than that. Their clientele does not ski that late.

And folks can grumble, but Stowe is probably one of the best run ski areas in the east. Their management does a good job and they have good equipment and infrastructure to do it with.

AIG & now it's subsidiary has invested nearly 6X's the amount of money in Stowe as POWDR paid for K 5 years ago in the same time period. And they already owned the place. Don't get me wrong I love Stowe & what they're doing with the area but being profitable is not a priority.

You are both correct in some ways.

During the late 90s Stowe was losing money. AIG charged Hanke Lundy with having the mountain start making money. Hank contended that the only way to do that is to become competitive in the market by having advanced snowmaking and grooming as well as substantial slopeside lodging; all things the mountain lacked at the time.

The town was very much against the idea of Spruce Village because they feared that it would draw business away from the town and the Mountain Company would be the only one who benefited. Most local business owners were prepared to put up a fight against it. Hanke threatened that the other option to balance their books would be a major reduction in operating expenses - a shorter season, less snowmaking and grooming, reduced lift operations - very much a "no frills" ski area. The words Mad River Glen were used in describing the kind of ski experience people could expect. To me those threats were hollow and full of hyperbole, but the future of the mountain was sold as Stowe either becoming Deer Valley East or Mad River Glen North. Local opposition feared those threats and the project eventually moved forward.

I have no idea if the mountain turns much of an operating profit today. I'm not as invested. I'm sure I could find out through old friends. I do know the mountain has made back it's development investment in real estate sales by a healthy margin. I've got some friends that went from being bartenders in town to being millionaires in a few short years through selling the product. I've got some other friends in town who wish the Spruce Village never happened. It really hasn't been that great of a thing for the town outside of the property tax windfall. There are actually fewer restaurant seats and hotel beds in town today than there was 15 years ago when you subtract out what's been built up at the mountain. Many of the businesses that remain and survived "the contraction" do not do the same revenue they did 15 years ago. The increased skier visits really has only helped migrate business up the road as once feared.

If I had to guess, I'd bet the mountain operates pretty much the same as years ago only with additional zeros on the balance sheet. I'm sure there are years just like every ski area where they don't make money and AIG picks up the tab.

 

[Gilligan]

Now to the thread, if I recall correctly, a very vocal member was criticizing other areas for opening only weekends in the fall and saying that should not count. Now should that same logic apply here? I mean Killington IS only open weekends now....

From October:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/114201-Attn-Mister-Moose?p=729082&viewfull=1#post729082

If a mountain opens for the weekend then closes was it really ever opened at all?:blink:

Yes, and those one or two days count toward the total season length. It is the days in between, when the mountain is closed, that do not count toward the season length.

Exactly. It should be obvious by now, but some just don't want to get it.

So, if Killington opens for 3 days this weekend, that would add 3 days to their total season length, not 7, not 0.

 

[andyzee]

Long live the king!

 

[Cannonball]

Yeah I agree it's lifts running. People are still earning turns on patches of snow at Jay and others.

Cannon Tram reopens May 24! And I still see patches of snow on the cam (some walking required). Long live the King!

 

[ScottySkis]

From October:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/114201-Attn-Mister-Moose?p=729082&viewfull=1#post729082







So, if Killington opens for 3 days this weekend, that would add 3 days to their total season length, not 7, not 0.

Yes it does.

 

[Gilligan]

Thinking off skiing K Friday afternoon is there any walking required on superstar?

Since K is closed until Friday morning, I do not know. But, I would be very surprised if any walking is required on Superstar this weekend. The webcam at the base of Superstar shows a lot of snow left on the trail. The snowcats will probably fill in any problem areas tonight.

http://www.killington.com/winter/multimedia/webcam/superstar.html

 

[thetrailboss]

So, if Killington opens for 3 days this weekend, that would add 3 days to their total season length, not 7, not 0.

I agree with that.

 

[skiersleft]

From October:
http://forums.alpinezone.com/showthread.php/114201-Attn-Mister-Moose?p=729082&viewfull=1#post729082







So, if Killington opens for 3 days this weekend, that would add 3 days to their total season length, not 7, not 0.

I assume DHS was talking about me as the vocal member. And what he originally suggested was wrong, as Gilligan just demonstrated. I never said it doesn't count. I said that in terms of longest season, opening weekends only counts less than opening 7 days, so that we should go by total DAYS open rather than by opening and closing day. And I stand by that with regards to K's weekend schedule.

 

[andyzee]

Since K is closed until Friday morning, I do not know. But, I would be very surprised if any walking is required on Superstar this weekend. The webcam at the base of Superstar shows a lot of snow left on the trail. The snowcats will probably fill in any problem areas tonight.

http://www.killington.com/winter/multimedia/webcam/superstar.html

Nope, they're determined to stay open to June, though have to say it'll be tough. Conditions report:

We're giving our groomers some time off and letting things go au naturale for once (that's a fancy way to say "BUMPS.") Look for top to bottom turns on Superstar all weekend long, with a little cooperation from our friend Mother Nature.

They don't want to push anything around unless they absolutely have to. Smart move. Skilark is expendable, Superstar is the signature spring trail to be preserved as long as possible. They've been open with far less coverage on it.

 

[Gilligan]

Nope, they're determined to stay open to June, though have to say it'll be tough. Conditions report:

We're giving our groomers some time off and letting things go au naturale for once (that's a fancy way to say "BUMPS.") Look for top to bottom turns on Superstar all weekend long, with a little cooperation from our friend Mother Nature.

They don't want to push anything around unless they absolutely have to. Smart move.

The trails report lists grooming on Upper Skylark, and no where else. Since that is normally a thinner area, I was basing my quess on that.
http://www.killington.com/winter/mountain/conditions/trails