Bin Ladin dead!

[wa-loaf]

Thank god that Guantanamo has remained open and that a select few of our servicemen/under cover CIA operatives have been able to use advanced interogation techniques to help acquire the information that allowed the operation to be a success to get Bin Laden!

This had nothing to do with how he was found and killed. And torture does not get you useful information.

 

[dmc]

This had nothing to do with how he was found and killed. And torture does not get you useful information.

I think I heard that some of the intel came out of Guantanamo.. Not sure if it was by torture..

 

[wa-loaf]

I think I heard that some of the intel came out of Guantanamo.. Not sure if it was by torture..

I read that a Pakistani source told them who OBL's courier was. They found that guy and followed him around until he led them to OBL.

 

[gmcunni]

I read that a Pakistani source told them who OBL's courier was. They found that guy and followed him around until he led them to OBL.

ticker on CNN says information leading to the ID of the courier came from detainees

 

[drjeff]

ticker on CNN says information leading to the ID of the courier came from detainees

Yup, the apparent story is that the link to the courier was found out from khaleid sheik mohammed enhanced interrogation done at guantanamo. The same policies that the Pres Obama authorized attorney general holder to investigate and possibly prosecute for(the interogaters that is) - good thing that never happened!

 

[dmc]

Yup, the apparent story is that the link to the courier was found out from khaleid sheik mohammed enhanced interrogation done at guantanamo. The same policies that the Pres Obama authorized attorney general holder to investigate and possibly prosecute for(the interogaters that is) - good thing that never happened!

Who knows - maybe it could've been done without the use of "enhance interrogation"?


Anyrate...

The point of this day to me is...
We live in an awesome country that can do just about anything. We did what we had to do to find a nasty mo-fo who murdered thousands of Americans. We chased him around the middle east and pressed an unfriendly nuclear power Islamic country to work with us to give his ass up.

We have had peaceful democratic power transitions longer then any other country.. We had an initiative started by one president and finished by another.. It didn't matter what their politics were or how they grew up. It got done.. I like many wish it could've happened faster - but it didn't.

AMERICA F**K YEAH!!!!

 

[riverc0il]

"And so, to the end of history, murder shall breed murder, always in the name of right and honor and peace, until the gods are tired of blood and create a race that can understand." -George Bernard Shaw

‎"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that" -- Martin Luther King, Jr

Doesn't mean Shaw's not right.

All of this is very applicable. Certainly Bin Laden's followers will see him as a martyr and one of his second in command will take up the torch and attempt worse horrors in his name.

But on the flip side, just because such acts don't solve the problem doesn't mean that should not be pursued. Had no one opposed Hitler, we might not be able to publicly state such great and noble quotes.

I think the greatest thing going on right now to fight terrorism is democracy spreading in the Middle East. Which will hopefully lead to economic prosperity to follow. I think the people inclined to terrorism would be less likely to choose that route if things were better economically in their countries. Until that happens, it's still on and this is just retribution rather than solving a problem.

At first I was thinking "where are the pics, conspiracy?" But I doubt the President would go public so quickly if this was not 100% confirmed. Can you imagine the public outcry if a kill was reported but he was really taken prisoner and this was later found out?

 

[dmc]

Current thing rumbling on the NET is the pictures are REALLY graphic.. Like brain splattered and hanging out graphic..

 

[wa-loaf]

ticker on CNN says information leading to the ID of the courier came from detainees

Yeah, that's correct my bad. This is a good article on the whole thing: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54093.html

I was an interrogator in the Army. I know torture gets you junk, is there some truth there? Sure, but you torture someone and they will tell you anything to get you to stop. Glad they got the info they needed for it. How and what detainee it came from is still unknown. Likely pieced together from various detainees. You need multiple sources to be talking about the same thing and then you need to try and verify that info externally. Even if the Kahlid dude had given up the name, the intelligence community wouldn't have run with it unless it had been confirmed through other means.

 

[wa-loaf]

Current thing rumbling on the NET is the pictures are REALLY graphic.. Like brain splattered and hanging out graphic..

The Special forces guys used to show me pics they took of stuff down in Central America. Nasty ...

 

[gmcunni]

Even if the Kahlid dude had given up the name, the intelligence community wouldn't have run with it unless it had been confirmed through other means.

i think i read (cnn ticker again) that the detainee info was 4 years ago and they'd be tailing the courier for 2 years. something like that.

(i didn't read the link you posted yet, perhaps it says the same thing)

 

[dmc]

The Special forces guys used to show me pics they took of stuff down in Central America. Nasty ...

yeah... I've been through a friend of mines pictures he took during the Vietnam conflict..
Seriously disturbing...

 

[deadheadskier]

Current thing rumbling on the NET is the pictures are REALLY graphic.. Like brain splattered and hanging out graphic..

I'm not sure keeping the picture and video evidence secret because of graphic nature is a strong argument.

I'd imagine what's being debated is whether or not releasing the pictures will result in greater retaliation than the announcement of Bin Laden's execution may already influence.

It's not like there aren't gruesome pictures all over the net of the human casualties in Libya.

 

[mlctvt]

Thank god that Guantanamo has remained open and that a select few of our servicemen/under cover CIA operatives have been able to use advanced interogation techniques to help acquire the information that allowed the operation to be a success to get Bin Laden!

According to the Associated Press the intel did not come from Guantanamo.

"In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaida's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.

One man became a particular interest for the agency when another detainee, Abu Faraj al-Libi, told interrogators that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed as al-Qaida's operational leader he received the word through a courier. Only bin Laden would have given al-Libi that promotion, CIA officials believed."

 

[mlctvt]

According to the Associated Press the intel did not come from Guantanamo.

"In a secret CIA prison in Eastern Europe years ago, al-Qaida's No. 3 leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, gave authorities the nicknames of several of bin Laden's couriers, four former U.S. intelligence officials said. Those names were among thousands of leads the CIA was pursuing.

One man became a particular interest for the agency when another detainee, Abu Faraj al-Libi, told interrogators that when he was promoted to succeed Mohammed as al-Qaida's operational leader he received the word through a courier. Only bin Laden would have given al-Libi that promotion, CIA officials believed."

Edit- Sorry it seems it did come from Gauntanamo. Abu Faraj al-Libi is incarcerated there.

 

[bigbog]

Current thing rumbling on the NET is the pictures are REALLY graphic.. Like brain splattered and hanging out graphic..

Most rifles used in the last several+ decades are automatics = NEVER pretty. The only non-nasty wounds are wounds on television.

 

[legalskier]

But on the flip side, just because such acts don't solve the problem doesn't mean that should not be pursued. Had no one opposed Hitler, we might not be able to publicly state such great and noble quotes.

+1

Here's a good analysis of whether the bin Laden mission was justified under U.S. and international law:
Can the U.S. Legally Defend Its Attack On Bin Laden?
The successful military operation against Osama bin Laden raises all sorts of questions about the legal authority the U.S. government relied on to carry out the deadly attack. Was it an assassination under U.S. or international law? Did it require approval of the highest levels of the Justice Department or a new executive order by the president? Was Pakistan's sovereignty disrespected? ***
Listen to the answer here: http://www.npr.org/2011/05/02/135930248/did-the-u-s-have-the-authority-to-carry-out-attack

George Bernard Shaw's gods may disagree, but if it's ok under U.S. and international law who am I to say otherwise.

 

[bigbog]

+1

Here's a good analysis of whether the bin Laden mission was justified under U.S. and international law:
Can the U.S. Legally Defend Its Attack On Bin Laden?
The successful military operation against Osama bin Laden raises all sorts of questions about the legal authority the U.S. government relied on to carry out the deadly attack. Was it an assassination under U.S. or international law? Did it require approval of the highest levels of the Justice Department or a new executive order by the president? Was Pakistan's sovereignty disrespected? ***
Listen to the answer here: http://www.npr.org/2011/05/02/135930248/did-the-u-s-have-the-authority-to-carry-out-attack

Sounds like just so much ultra-Conservative crap.....which has nothing to do with Fiscal Conservatism.
The best way to attain success with stubborn adversaries is to make it look like you're being lenient.... What was being called torture by the ACLU wasn't that vile imho.......Obama has learned a little about being a President...it takes more than being politically correct in warfare. But agree with wa-loaf, there is a point where getting info becomes questionable. Would sure like to see just as much $$$ that was given to Pakistan...now given to the under-$50k crowd.
How anyone can be so gullable in trying to bribe corrupt governments like Pakistan's for accurate information.....is like listening to Curveball? or was it Cueball? Media has turned these last 48hrs into a friggin circus...

 

[legalskier]

Current thing rumbling on the NET is the pictures are REALLY graphic.. Like brain splattered and hanging out graphic..

Gruesome photo is hoax, but White House debates release of real ones
The White House is debating whether or not it will release photos of Osama Bin Laden's corpse. Officials say they have pictures of the Al Qaeda terror leader's dead body, ABC News reported Monday, and "there's no doubt it's him." However, because they are disturbing images, the Obama administration is uncertain if it would be okay to make them public.
"It is really, really graphic," an official told NBC News.
Officials said Monday that DNA evidence shows the body is in fact Bin Laden's, but suggest releasing a photo of his body may be necessary to quiet critics.
An image of a bloody Bin Laden was shown on Arab TV late Sunday, as well as the front page of the Daily Mail. However, that image has since been shown to be a hoax. ***

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...house_debates_release_of_r.html#ixzz1LFgej8n6

 

[legalskier]

Sounds like just so much ultra-Conservative crap......

That's the first time I've ever heard NPR be described as ultra-conservative!