Board AND ski???

[danny p]

I do them all, depends on the season how much of each. For a while, all I did was tele and snowboard, but that ended when I realized that alpine was still fun too. AT got heavily into the mix in the last five years as well. And I picked up a splitboard last fall.

I've been skiing (alpine/xc) since 1979, teleing since '83, first tried snowboarding in '85 and after coaching these sports for the last 20+ years, it has become apparent to me that each discipline has many similarities and few differences. Flex and extend. Look ahead. Don't lean uphill, move down the hill. Finish turns to control speed. Mix carving and skidding movements, depending on terrain and snow conditions. A tele turn is a toe-side turn, a revers-a-mark is a heel-side turn. We're all just sliding around on p-tex.

People who claim that one tool is better than another are only speaking for themselves. Look at the top people in each sport, they ride their gear to the outer limits of imagination.

If you think skis are better for the steeps, check out the routes that Jeremy Jones rides; spine lines that don't even look possible and near-vertical faces that he essentially free-falls down, while still maintaining control. Clearly, one stick has its advantages. And he seems pretty comfortable at speed too. Mach-loonie down Alaskan peaks ...

If you're all righteous about dropping the knee because it's cooler/more versatile/lighter/more-in-touch/etc., do a randonee race and watch the Dynafit crowd blow by you or enter a mogul contest and get schooled by kids whose feet seem glued to the ground, except when launching a sick air. Even Dylan Crossman locks his heel on a regular basis.

If you slide sideways because it makes you feel superior to your straight-sliding brethren and sistren, check out some footage of Bode or Nobis or Babic. Totally out of this world.

If you're an alpiner who thinks that fixing the heel fixes the problem, try to keep up with someone like Crossman on his tele gear. He did win the MRG Vertical Challenge one year on them, beating the entire rest of the field, regardless of gear.

However, if you slide for fun and don't worry about how many sticks you have on your feet, you're on the right track. If you are looking to experience the joyous feeling of learning new ways to approach winter sliding sports, I encourage you to find a good coach and be prepared to want more gear.

John
www.sugarbush.com

Amen. Extremely well put.

 

[Edd]

I tried boarding a couple of years ago and broke my wrist on the first day. Skied with a cast for 5 weeks.

Uh, anyone wanna buy a snowboard? It's a Head Ignition with Flow bindings. Also, a pair of Salomon boots. This gear was used for 4, count em, 4 green runs.

 

[JD]

i dont know if i really agree with you. i can de-ski and be solid in the the same time as skiers are ready to go down hill. unless you one of the those guys that rip their skins of while balancing on one ski.

traversing sometimes is a biatch but when im touring i got my poles right there. alot of times i will just ride with my pole collapsed.

gear intensive? what would a splitty carry more than you? i can't really think of anything.

riding my board when exploring just makes me look at the terrain in a way that makes it most rideable. granted there are areas that you gota go up hill, poles with big baskets give me the leverage in need. but if you got to re-skin a good splitty should be reskined just as fast as you but when im exploring i am never really rushing so it has never really made a difference.

Sort of a hiajck here, and I like what John said about it's all about the fun. But I really feel like trying to tour in the east on a snowboard is not Ideal. Split boards cost close to a thousand bucks for the entire set up including skins and poles. And it's totally a quiver piece that you won't ride on every day. I don't know many people that can justify that expense around here. Long flat runouts to the car are the norm if one was skiing at a natural area (no lifts), oftern times in fading light in a hurry to get back to the wife after taking one too many laps. 2-3 miles of flat and rolling terrain on a split board seems to be a wicked pita. And yes, I take my skins off w/o taking my skis off...as does everyone else I think, and I have waited, crouched on the chin in 40 mph winds on 5 degree days waiting for people to get the ice and snow out from under their binding so they can get it clipped back on. No fun. Also. So many places we ski back country in the east are short pitches of 7-800 vert. We'll do several laps. A split board just isn't ideal for this. On long climbs and long descents with no traversing down a known, open line, or out west where that is more the style of riding, fantastic tool. But here where you spend alot of time shuffling around tight softwoods, down-over-down-over-up-over-ect.,trying to find good natural lines away from ski areas... they loose their appeal fast. As an every-once-in -a-while board, they are great. But If East Coast Backcountry is what you do....not the ideal tool.
But, all that said, it's better then snow shoeing.

 

[dmc]

Uh, anyone wanna buy a snowboard? It's a Head Ignition with Flow bindings. Also, a pair of Salomon boots. This gear was used for 4, count em, 4 green runs.

Flows... Never liked them... Only binding my foot ever pulled out of... not a good thing...

 

[Chris I]

I ride, a snowboard.

Wanna get into skiing for the exact reason JD explained. But maybe i'll just start surfing

 

[evil]

Interesting comments on the "ideal b.c. tool" for the east, that's one of the reasons I got a touring setup this season. Out west, I board and have no problem on s.shoes and flipping over to ride mode, by the end of those climbs the whole group welcomes a rest. Here on the east, I like doing laps, usually lift assisted, and from what I have seen, it's way easier to be in a telly or even touring setup, plus, the trees on the right coast are tighter so having less on my pack is awesome, can't tell you how many snags of my shoes in the trees at Jay I had to endure to figure that out!
I do agree that it's not about the tool, it's the person. I have done extensive laps out in the Catskills and have had some baton death march climbs out in Taho and B.C. with all types of snow sliders.
I kinda always though that who ever has the biggest smile on at the end of the day is doing it right.

 

[drewfidelic]

I'm at 100% skiing. I'd like to start boarding, but haven't had enough days at the hill in the last few years to justify taking time to not ski.
________
Volcano Review

 

[JD]

Interesting comments on the "ideal b.c. tool" for the east, that's one of the reasons I got a touring setup this season. Out west, I board and have no problem on s.shoes and flipping over to ride mode, by the end of those climbs the whole group welcomes a rest. Here on the east, I like doing laps, usually lift assisted, and from what I have seen, it's way easier to be in a telly or even touring setup, plus, the trees on the right coast are tighter so having less on my pack is awesome, can't tell you how many snags of my shoes in the trees at Jay I had to endure to figure that out!
I do agree that it's not about the tool, it's the person. I have done extensive laps out in the Catskills and have had some baton death march climbs out in Taho and B.C. with all types of snow sliders.
I kinda always though that who ever has the biggest smile on at the end of the day is doing it right.

It is all about the fun! And I'd gladly wait for anyone who was having a good time. More times then not however, when I'm with a snowboarder, and we drop into a line that closes out and the tight gnar bushwacking starts....they stop having fun...start cursing, and alot of time we end up just loosing elevation thru crap because they are reduced to trying to posthole because in that situation you would never reassemble and reskin your board to go 150 yards side hill, but postholing that far thru spruce tree traps is impossible. Just the facts. Ahh, spruce trap bushwack hell in neck deep snow...seems like heaven right now. A few times I've even had to climb spruce trees with my skis on to get out of a trap....very hard on split boards, or even touring bindings w/o spring tension keeping you ski tight to your foot.
Can it be done. Absolutely. Would I ever stop tele for split boarding...prolly not.

 

[gorgonzola]

skier, boarded a bit on a wood burton when they first came out in like '79/80 and then again when my kids were learning, to slide on somewhat of a level playing field. since i spent alot of my misguided youth smokin, skatin and surfing i always thought i would drift toward the snowboard but not so. (except for powder and hard boot carvers) i like the carve of skis better than the skid turns i get out of the board on pa conditions and i get a little closterphobic having both feet anchored. i got just good enough to take some hellacious spills at speed which hurt alot more than any yard sale on skis

 

[hardline]

Sort of a hiajck here, and I like what John said about it's all about the fun. But I really feel like trying to tour in the east on a snowboard is not Ideal. Split boards cost close to a thousand bucks for the entire set up including skins and poles. And it's totally a quiver piece that you won't ride on every day. I don't know many people that can justify that expense around here. Long flat runouts to the car are the norm if one was skiing at a natural area (no lifts), oftern times in fading light in a hurry to get back to the wife after taking one too many laps. 2-3 miles of flat and rolling terrain on a split board seems to be a wicked pita. And yes, I take my skins off w/o taking my skis off...as does everyone else I think, and I have waited, crouched on the chin in 40 mph winds on 5 degree days waiting for people to get the ice and snow out from under their binding so they can get it clipped back on. No fun. Also. So many places we ski back country in the east are short pitches of 7-800 vert. We'll do several laps. A split board just isn't ideal for this. On long climbs and long descents with no traversing down a known, open line, or out west where that is more the style of riding, fantastic tool. But here where you spend alot of time shuffling around tight softwoods, down-over-down-over-up-over-ect.,trying to find good natural lines away from ski areas... they loose their appeal fast. As an every-once-in -a-while board, they are great. But If East Coast Backcountry is what you do....not the ideal tool.
But, all that said, it's better then snow shoeing.

i can see where you are coming from. i did come from slowshoes so the splitty made me really happy. i have tried two planks about 4 years ago for a full day and it was no fun for me. your right there are some drawbacks but even if im hitting small hills i really enjoy the time i am spending out in the woods so im not to rushed.

as far a price my first split i made split myself. so it was like a 100 for the board then 300 for the kit and skins. i recently got crampons so another 150. i also picked up a burton split from last year for 350 brand new. so it isnt that expensive but you are right for a local it does get expensive to build a quiver. its one of the reasons i moved back to the city is to support my habit.

its not like i am going to ever ski again and am pretty happy with my split. i tried to de skin with the boards still atached and i ended up ass in the snow. just didn't have the balance. more power to ya. to each his own.its just fun to be in the woods.

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

If
it were hard it would be called skiing.

 

[JD]

i can see where you are coming from. i did come from slowshoes so the splitty made me really happy. i have tried two planks about 4 years ago for a full day and it was no fun for me. your right there are some drawbacks but even if im hitting small hills i really enjoy the time i am spending out in the woods so im not to rushed.

as far a price my first split i made split myself. so it was like a 100 for the board then 300 for the kit and skins. i recently got crampons so another 150. i also picked up a burton split from last year for 350 brand new. so it isnt that expensive but you are right for a local it does get expensive to build a quiver. its one of the reasons i moved back to the city is to support my habit.

its not like i am going to ever ski again and am pretty happy with my split. i tried to de skin with the boards still atached and i ended up ass in the snow. just didn't have the balance. more power to ya. to each his own.its just fun to be in the woods.

They are great. I am happy to have snowboard friends with them. I can take them places most snowboraders never see. And I agree, I never mind a little wait out in the woods on good snow..

 

[MR. evil]

A couple of seasons ago I gave snowboarding a shot. At the time I was having some knee issues and several people told me that SB was easier on the knees than skiing. I picked it up pretty easy, probably due to my days on a skate board as a kid. I did it about 4 or 5 times that winter, but just didn't find it as fun as skiing. I will say that the boots are alot more comfortable!

 

[hardline]

A couple of seasons ago I gave snowboarding a shot. At the time I was having some knee issues and several people told me that SB was easier on the knees than skiing. I picked it up pretty easy, probably due to my days on a skate board as a kid. I did it about 4 or 5 times that winter, but just didn't find it as fun as skiing. I will say that the boots are alot more comfortable!

like any sport its not really fun till you can just go anywhere. after 4 or 5 times your not going to be at the point where you forget whats atached to your feet. when i tried skiing for a day again i had two think about two boards atached to my feet vs not thinking about one. hell as long as your having fun comming down i really dont care what people ride as long as everbody is having fun.

 

[atkinson]

I picked up an almost new Voile splitboard with skins last year at the Waitsfield Ski and Skate Sale for $100, so it isn't always a major cash drop for entry. Heck, alpine skis can cost much more and not include skins. New AT gear isn't exactly cheap either. By the way, the Ski and Skate Sale is this weekend, Nov 14-15. Drop-off is Friday night.

You may need to consider adventures more carefully with a split, to avoid lots of mode changes, but who is looking for tight schwack traversing? The descents along the high spine of the Greens are bigger though, with lots of 1500-2000' pitches and a few approaching 3000'.

I agree it's another step in getting ready to go up or down, but Voile's system is pretty cool. And riding powder on a snowboard is one of the most joyous experiences I've ever had.

That said, I ski more than anything these days, because it is primarily what my body likes best now.

Nice turns today at MRG!

John

 

[mondeo]

Amen. Extremely well put.

x2

like any sport its not really fun till you can just go anywhere. after 4 or 5 times your not going to be at the point where you forget whats atached to your feet. when i tried skiing for a day again i had two think about two boards atached to my feet vs not thinking about one. hell as long as your having fun comming down i really dont care what people ride as long as everbody is having fun.

Which is a large reason a lot of us don't do the opposite, probably. Don't want to stop having fun to put in the investment to give ourself the choice of how to have fun.

The other part for me is that I don't have nearly as much fun ripping GS turns as skiing moguls, and the park is just a little bit better. I've gotta figure I'd feel the same way on a board, and while bumps can be done, it's non-ideal purely due to the mechanics.

 

[gymnast46]

If you're a skier who's been reluctant to try boarding, give some thought to riding a hardboot board. Your feet are more in line with the nose of the board and there's more of a "roll your ankles" approach than the traditional heel - toe motion on freestyle boards. There aren't a lot of places to get hardboot boards but maybe you can borrow one from someone to try it out.

After my first time I was hooked. I split my time 50/50 between skis and board but 90% of the time on the latter is on hardboots.

 

[hardline]

If you're a skier who's been reluctant to try boarding, give some thought to riding a hardboot board. Your feet are more in line with the nose of the board and there's more of a "roll your ankles" approach than the traditional heel - toe motion on freestyle boards. There aren't a lot of places to get hardboot boards but maybe you can borrow one from someone to try it out.

After my first time I was hooked. I split my time 50/50 between skis and board but 90% of the time on the latter is on hardboots.

x2

i actually come from a racing background and loath hardboots. they are way to restrictive. the one thing that has carried over is ride with my shoulders square to the fall line. i like my boots with a meduim flex and pretty tall highbacks.



Which is a large reason a lot of us don't do the opposite, probably. Don't want to stop having fun to put in the investment to give ourself the choice of how to have fun.

The other part for me is that I don't have nearly as much fun ripping GS turns as skiing moguls, and the park is just a little bit better. I've gotta figure I'd feel the same way on a board, and while bumps can be done, it's non-ideal purely due to the mechanics.

true who wants to change it up when you are having fun

when i made the change to skis i would spen all summer skating and surfing so when i found snowboarding it was perfect.

bumps and boards aren't perfect but doable. i only go through bumps to get to where im going.

I picked up an almost new Voile splitboard with skins last year at the Waitsfield Ski and Skate Sale for $100, so it isn't always a major cash drop for entry. Heck, alpine skis can cost much more and not include skins. New AT gear isn't exactly cheap either. By the way, the Ski and Skate Sale is this weekend, Nov 14-15. Drop-off is Friday night.

You may need to consider adventures more carefully with a split, to avoid lots of mode changes, but who is looking for tight schwack traversing? The descents along the high spine of the Greens are bigger though, with lots of 1500-2000' pitches and a few approaching 3000'.

I agree it's another step in getting ready to go up or down, but Voile's system is pretty cool. And riding powder on a snowboard is one of the most joyous experiences I've ever had.

That said, I ski more than anything these days, because it is primarily what my body likes best now.

Nice turns today at MRG!

John

100 for voile you should have picked that up. the new binding from spark are really nice i want to get a set this winter it take some of the slop out of the voile interface.

 

[Greg]

Nice turns today at MRG!

John

I really appreciate the pics you post, but ya know, sometimes you really are a bastard....



:razz:

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

i've got a buddy we call "mutant"...he's a hardplate rider who dresses like a skier and rides volkl raceboards....in the bumps and trees. he's smoother in the bumps than 99% of the boarders I've seen...hits the park and pipe too...and fuggetaboutit when it comes to carving. He's a solid skier too...hadn't been on skis for 10 years then I stuck him on a pair of 212 volant z max-gs, took him down a buffed out groomer, told him to follow me and roll his ankles...he picked up on it in a few runs and now skis 30-40% of the time...hes not super versatile but he can arc em on hard snow. Carving skills on skis are similar to the carving skills on a raceboard...especially with aggressive stance angles...50+