Gas Price

[ctenidae]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I do think if someone is asking for $5 gas to force innovation, but doesn't walk the talk, that their vote doesn't count. It likes a Senator voting for war, but not wanting their kid to enlist.

I especially have a problem with it when the person who's rooting for $5 gas isn't affected much by it at all. Would that same individual root for $20/gallon gasoline? Because that's the level they'd need to pay to feel the effects an average american feels.

I'm not rooting for $5 gas. Instead, I'm making the point that at $5, demand forces begin to incent innovation, and that, in and of itself, is not a bad thing.

But, to your point about it affecting the "average person," assuming a 20 gallon fillup once a week (what I do, anyway), a $1 increase in gas prices equates to an extra $20 a week, or $80 a month. While not an inconsequential amount, if $80 a month causes someone to be overextended, then I submit that that person may have been overextended to begin with. Gas prices are a convenient boogeyman. Like when you drink too much and blame it on that last beer, because the previous 9 had noting to do with it. Granted, the difference between $4 and $5 isn't all that much, but between $3 and $5 is another matter.

 

[gmcunni]

But, to your point about it affecting the "average person," assuming a 20 gallon fillup once a week (what I do, anyway), a $1 increase in gas prices equates to an extra $20 a week, or $80 a month. While not an inconsequential amount, if $80 a month causes someone to be overextended, then I submit that that person may have been overextended to begin with.

agree that it won't overextend most people but it has changed my purchasing habits. $80 a month pretty much eliminates my "oh, that is cool i want it" spending. so i wont' be picking up that off season ski stuff i didn't really need but really really wanted.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm not rooting for $5 gas. Instead, I'm making the point that at $5, demand forces begin to incent innovation, and that, in and of itself, is not a bad thing.

But, to your point about it affecting the "average person," assuming a 20 gallon fillup once a week (what I do, anyway), a $1 increase in gas prices equates to an extra $20 a week, or $80 a month. While not an inconsequential amount, if $80 a month causes someone to be overextended, then I submit that that person may have been overextended to begin with.

48% of working Americans make less than 25K per year. $80 a month is significant to them. That's for $4. The strain they are currently feeling. Take it up to $5 and you're at $160. That's not even taking into account heating oil and all the other expenses in life that jump up with the rise in fuel costs.

I'm not suggesting that $80 will cause someone to be overextended, but it certainly will impact quality of life in some ways. $160 most certainly.

I don't disregard the need for innovation and you are right that it would appear that discomfort drives it the most, but I think $3/gallon is a more reasonable number for the majority of Americans.

 

[mondeo]

48% of working Americans make less than 25K per year. $80 a month is significant to them. That's for $4. The strain they are currently feeling. Take it up to $5 and you're at $160. That's not even taking into account heating oil and all the other expenses in life that jump up with the rise in fuel costs.

I'm not suggesting that $80 will cause someone to be overextended, but it certainly will impact quality of life in some ways. $160 most certainly.

I don't disregard the need for innovation and you are right that it would appear that discomfort drives it the most, but I think $3/gallon is a more reasonable number for the majority of Americans.

I submit that traveling 400 miles per week for someone earning less than $25k is a bit much. Most earning that level have sufficient access to public transportation and live much closer to work than most of us.

There are exceptions, of course, but gas prices aren't a significant direct cost to urban populations, the portion of the populace with the bulk of the low wages.

 

[Nick]

Don't forget higher gas prices = higher everything else (food, fruit, milk, construction materials, whatever).

 

[ctenidae]

Don't forget higher gas prices = higher everything else (food, fruit, milk, construction materials, whatever).

There is that, too- a tax cut that would really help the working poor would be to reduce the taxes on diesel, thereby reducing the cost to transport goods.

 

[deadheadskier]

I submit that traveling 400 miles per week for someone earning less than $25k is a bit much. Most earning that level have sufficient access to public transportation and live much closer to work than most of us.

There are exceptions, of course, but gas prices aren't a significant direct cost to urban populations, the portion of the populace with the bulk of the low wages.

20% of the country lives in rural areas. From my experience living in those areas, incomes are considerably lower than Urban environments.

I just think people tend to view things with blinders on. Just because you (general term, not you specifically) can get along fine at $5 gas, doesn't mean a large percentage of people aren't significantly impacted by it.

 

[ctenidae]

http://ihea2011.abstractsubmit.org/presentations/916/

Interesting- suggests a link between higher gas prices and lower levels of obesity

 

[deadheadskier]

http://ihea2011.abstractsubmit.org/presentations/916/

Interesting- suggests a link between higher gas prices and lower levels of obesity

I'd rather we tax the hell out of fast food joints to fund alternative fuel research :lol:

 

[wa-loaf]

http://ihea2011.abstractsubmit.org/presentations/916/

Interesting- suggests a link between higher gas prices and lower levels of obesity

Can't afford gas? Gotta walk or ride a bike.

 

[Glenn]

http://ihea2011.abstractsubmit.org/presentations/916/

Interesting- suggests a link between higher gas prices and lower levels of obesity

That would be a great one for the guys at freakonomics to look into.

 

[SkiFanE]

20% of the country lives in rural areas. From my experience living in those areas, incomes are considerably lower than Urban environments.

I just think people tend to view things with blinders on. Just because you (general term, not you specifically) can get along fine at $5 gas, doesn't mean a large percentage of people aren't significantly impacted by it.

Rural poor ruin the whole thing. They can hardly afford a car on minimum wage, and then the gas to drive to work costs alot. And then repairs to the car. And without a car, they have no job, and depend on others (or gov't) to help out. Bad cycle.

I think initially expensive gas would hurt, but need to look long term. If Walmart has to pay more $ to workers to afford to travel to work, then they need to do that, even if goods cost more. It's just the same argument over and over and over...that eventually you just have to suck it up, do it, live through the hardship and come out the other side in a better place. Europe has been living with gas prices like this for a long time, they just didn't buy into sprawl, which caused many of our current problems (IMO). I live in a place that requires a car, and I'm beginning to hate it. Would love to own only 1 car and be able to commute on a train and walk to bank/stores/school.

 

[mlctvt]

Europe has been living with gas prices like this for a long time, they just didn't buy into sprawl, which caused many of our current problems (IMO).

Exactly. Most countries in Europe people live in the city and or town. You can't even build housing outside of town limits in many countries, it's not allowed. This does several things. You don't need a car/ everything is in walking distance / transportation is easily taken care of, and it also makes sure that the countryside is kept for agricultural uses. Which in turn is why these countries are so beautiful even though they've been inhabited for hundreds or thousands of years longer than the USA. Here in the USA everyone has to have a mini estate with a lawn this causes massive sprawl and everything is car based. Too bad we didn't think about proper community planning before we screwed up the whole USA.

 

[SkiFanE]

Exactly. Most countries in Europe people live in the city and or town. You can't even build housing outside of town limits in many countries, it's not allowed. This does several things. You don't need a car/ everything is in walking distance / transportation is easily taken care of, and it also makes sure that the countryside is kept for agricultural uses. Which in turn is why these countries are so beautiful even though they've been inhabited for hundreds or thousands of years longer than the USA. Here in the USA everyone has to have a mini estate with a lawn this causes massive sprawl and everything is car based. Too bad we didn't think about proper community planning before we screwed up the whole USA.

It's the baby boomers fault lol!

Europe also charges a tax based on size of a car engine. So if you choose to drive a Hummer, fine...just have to cough up lots of $ for the privilege.

 

[mlctvt]

It's the baby boomers fault lol!

Europe also charges a tax based on size of a car engine. So if you choose to drive a Hummer, fine...just have to cough up lots of $ for the privilege.

Yes, when I was in Italy I was speaking to our tour bus driver. He said the annual car taxes were based on the size of the engine that's why almost all cars had engines under 1.6 Cu liters. He said you had to be very well off to be able to afford a 2.0 liter or larger engine car.

 

[deadheadskier]

Rural poor ruin the whole thing. They can hardly afford a car on minimum wage, and then the gas to drive to work costs alot. And then repairs to the car. And without a car, they have no job, and depend on others (or gov't) to help out. Bad cycle.

Well next time you buy some vegetables be sure to tell the person at the farm stand, thanks for ruining it for us.

For the sake of this ski forum:

Next time your at a ski resort, tell the cook preparing your food, thanks for ruining it for us.

Most of my friends who work in Stowe or other ski towns live 15-20 miles away from work because that's the closest place they can find affordable housing. Why? All the second home owners drive local real estate prices through the roof.

 

[deadheadskier]

Yes, when I was in Italy I was speaking to our tour bus driver. He said the annual car taxes were based on the size of the engine that's why almost all cars had engines under 1.6 Cu liters. He said you had to be very well off to be able to afford a 2.0 liter or larger engine car.

This I think is a much better solution than simply higher gas prices. The US is great at 'sin taxes'. HUGE taxes should be levied on vehicles averaging under 20MPG to encourage greater fuel efficiency.

 

[wa-loaf]

This I think is a much better solution than simply higher gas prices. The US is great at 'sin taxes'. HUGE taxes should be levied on vehicles averaging under 20MPG to encourage greater fuel efficiency.

All these extra taxes are dumb, and the worst are the proposals to install gps devices in cars to track miles and tax those who drive more. The plain old basic gas tax works just fine, you burn more fuel, you pay more in taxes. Very simple, don't get caught up in complicated tax scheme's that exist only because people are afraid to raise the gas tax.

 

[mondeo]

It's the baby boomers fault lol!

Europe also charges a tax based on size of a car engine. So if you choose to drive a Hummer, fine...just have to cough up lots of $ for the privilege.

Moronic. So if you choose to buy a Hummer but only drive 50 miles a week, you're worse than someone who drives a Prius 200 miles a week just because of the size of your engine?

 

[ctenidae]

All these extra taxes are dumb, and the worst are the proposals to install gps devices in cars to track miles and tax those who drive more. The plain old basic gas tax works just fine, you burn more fuel, you pay more in taxes. Very simple, don't get caught up in complicated tax scheme's that exist only because people are afraid to raise the gas tax.

And make sure the gas tax goes to highways and research, not pork.

Not that there's anything wrong with pork.