How is Belleayre operating minus

[Tin Woodsman]

The real question here is what ever Belleayre's operating lost is, does NY state make more than that up on the taxes collected on the money spent in NY versus VT?

If Belleayre closed its doors, the other ski areas in the Catskills can not handle an additional 180,000 skiers and riders. Where would those 180,000 skiers and riders go for their turns? If they go to VT, then NY not only looses a lot of tax dollars. NY state looses economic dollars to VT. Money spent in NY state is then spent and re-spent many times over. Each time the money is used to purchase something, NY state collects sales tax. Money spent in VT as opposed to NY would be a huge negative impact to the economy and NY state taxes collected.

This is a red herring. How likely is it that the DEC closes Belleayre? Why use a silly scare tactic, for the 2nd or 3rd year running at that? It only serves to further diminish your credibility. It's the same type of propaganda we here when any govt agency is threatened with budget cuts.

The big picture, Belleayre brings in money to NY state from other states and makes a lot of money for NY state. Should Belleayre loose some full time employees. Probably yes. Should Belleayre loose 80 percent of its full time employees? That seems a bit extreme.

I don't believe any ski area the size of Belleayre operates with only 7 full time employees (55 - 48 = 7 employees) to run a down hill ski area, cross country ski area, summer beach, summer concerts, and many other summer events.

I beleive that most were full time seasonal getting laid off and then brought back again as full time seasonal,keeping there 80% + hours to keep benefits.

As even skidbump admits, they aren't losing these employees. So please stop making these ridiculous claims. Those people are being transitioned to full-time season workers. They still have jobs when they are needed, and Belleayre would still likely be overstaffed, considering they only have a 4-5 month season but are paying most employees for 10 months.

 

[trapedui]

I just thought I would add one skier's perspective to this whole dialogue. I certainly care about local jobs, taxpayer money and state vs private enterprise competition, but I will leave those issues for others to debate.

As a skier, I am thrilled that Belleayre is still open. I am fairly certain that our family would not be a family of avid skiers if it were not for Belleayre. We discovered Belleayre when we moved to the NYC suburbs in 2006. Since then, we have probably skied a total of 30-35 days, almost exclusively at Belleayre. Every year, we ski more frequently and this year, we made the plunge and rented a cabin and bought season passes. Both of the girls will be in the Alpine Development Program for ten weeks. So starting this weekend, we plan to ski every weekend until mid-March. I can't remember the last time our whole family was as exicted as we are now.

My daughters are now 6 and 9. They both learned to ski at Belleayre's KidsCamp. And my wife learned to ski on Belleayre's ample selection of green trails. I grew up skiiing at Elk Mountain (in PA), but had not skied much since I was a teenager until we started skiing Belleayre. Belleayre is not right for everyone, but it is perfect for my family. As someone pointed out, there is not much to do there at night, but we have done many day trips and Uno and Yatzee are great for overnight stays.

We always intend to try out other local mountains, but we keep coming back to what is comfortable. We've skied Windham a couple times, but found it very crowded (on Potter Flex Days, when we went) and we had a hard time getting used to having sushi and valet parking at a ski mountain. I guess it is a bit upscale for our tastes. I do look forward to skiing Hunter one day because the trail map looks great for me, but it would not be very good for my wife or the youngest. Perhaps one day we will prefer Hunter (or Plattekill, which we haven't yet tried), but for now Belleayre is perfect for us.

We had to commit to the cabin and the season passes in July, so it would have been a real bummer for us if Belleayre had not opened this year. I'm sure we would have received refunds for the season passes, but we would have been stuck with the cabin. Obviously, our hardship would not have been comparable to the hardship of those who rely on the mountain to feed their families, but I am trying to focus on the skier's perspective. As dmc wrote, we probably would not divert to Hunter or Windham if Belleayre closes. It is more likely that we would try Catamount or Jiminy Peak.

In any event, we are very glad that we don't have to find another place to feed our growing addiction to skiiing. While I have only skied for free at Belleayre on my birthday, their discounts and affordable ski school were a big reason that we got into the sport. I'm not sure if it is fair to NYS taxpayers or to competing mountains, but it works for us.

 

[dmc]

My Dad just passed away last week... He started me skiing..

And I keep thinking about how we used to go to Belleayre when I was learning. And even after I started skiing Hunter I'd still take him to Belleayre. He was happy with cruisers.. no interest in becoming a better skier - just loved being outside in the winter.

 

[drjeff]

My Dad just passed away last week... He started me skiing..

And I keep thinking about how we used to go to Belleayre when I was learning. And even after I started skiing Hunter I'd still take him to Belleayre. He was happy with cruisers.. no interest in becoming a better skier - just loved being outside in the winter.

Condolence's DMC. Being on the hill with family is a really cool thing!

 

[catskills]

DMC I am sorry to hear about your father. My condolences. Sounds like your dad was a cool guy.

 

[lerops]

My Dad just passed away last week... He started me skiing..

And I keep thinking about how we used to go to Belleayre when I was learning. And even after I started skiing Hunter I'd still take him to Belleayre. He was happy with cruisers.. no interest in becoming a better skier - just loved being outside in the winter.

My condolences. It is great that you will always be doing something he started you.

 

[dmc]

Thanks all...

Point is.. Belleayre is a great place for families to go and learn to ski..

 

[lerops]

On that note, I was at Bellayre today. I was thinking about how great it would be to ski there with my one-year old in a few years.

 

[goldsbar]

On that note, I was at Bellayre today. I was thinking about how great it would be to ski there with my one-year old in a few years.

They have a really good program for 4+ y/o. Good in that my son has fun everytime which matters the most. It lasts a good part of the day so you can ski while they learn. I tried to teach my son myself... Now I pay the money!

 

[kartski]

From a local paper. While I don't frequent Belleayre, I'm not against it. The State also owns Medical Centers and Hospitals that compete against Privately Owned Institutions, I'm not for closing them.


http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101231/NEWS/12310360/-1/NEWS

By Adam Bosch
Times Herald-Record
Published: 2:00 AM - 12/31/10

HIGHMOUNT — A new management structure could insulate Belleayre Mountain from the volatile state budget.

That's according to lawmakers, regional policy groups and ski advocates who've talked about creating an authority to oversee the state-owned ski center.

This comes as some 45 workers are due to be laid off Friday at Belleayre. The layoffs are part of 140 job cuts at the state Department of Environmental Conservation and some 900 across all state agencies.

Belleayre supporters will protest the layoffs Friday at noon, near the entrance to the center.

State Sen. John Bonacic, R-C-Mount Hope, said he will ask incoming Gov. Andrew Cuomo to undo the Belleayre layoffs. If that doesn't work, he'll introduce a bill to create an authority to manage the center.

"This is our fall-back position if we can't reverse what (Gov. David) Paterson has done," Bonacic said, referring to the layoffs. "I think the people at Belleayre and their supporters would want to go to an authority."

Under an authority, Belleayre would be managed by an appointed commissioner and a board. While it could still receive state money, the ski center also would have to survive largely on whatever revenue it makes from lift tickets, concessions and other forms of income.

An authority also would prevent the state from sweeping Belleayre's profits into the general fund — a change that would preserve jobs, advocates said.

Whiteface Ski Center and Gore Mountain Ski Area, New York's other state-owned ski centers, operate under the Olympic Regional Development Authority. An authority was unsuccessfully pitched for Belleayre in the 1990s.

New York has some 700 authorities, including ones that oversee highways, bridges and local development groups.

Assemblyman Kevin Cahill, D-Kingston, said lawmakers have to analyze Belleayre's finances before moving toward an authority. He worried the ski center might pull in enough money to handle payroll, but its revenues could fall short for bigger items, like equipment repairs and upgrades.

"I'm very interested in the idea of an authority," Cahill said, "but we have to get past the hype, past the anger, past the emotion before we can get serious."

According to a recent report in the Albany Times-Union, Belleayre posted a $1 million operating loss last year, and lost $76,000 the year before that.

Advocates, including Joe Kelly of The Coalition to Save Belleayre, say the ski center breaks even.

Advocates said they're consulting lawyers and considering other management options, but they wouldn't share details. Any new plan for Belleayre must conform to the state constitution, which says the ski center cannot be sold or leased.

abosch@th-record.com

 

[threecy]

An authority also would prevent the state from sweeping Belleayre's profits into the general fund

Like that's really been an issue, according to what's been published here!

 

[kartski]

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2011/Jan/01/Belleayre_Rally-01Jan11.htm

"There is anger, there is disappointment,” Senator Bonacic said. “There are employees here that have worked their whole lives on this mountain, this is their life.” Bonacic pledged to bring all 32 Republican state senators to a meeting with new Governor Cuomo at the beginning of the year.

“This isn’t a partisan issue, this is a people issue,” said Ulster County Executive Michael Hein. “When I look out, I see families. When I look out I see people who are going to be negatively impacted, and generations of people that are going to be negatively impacted if this is allowed to stand. So when we talk about, ‘Don’t Mess with Belleayre’ we do it for a reason. Because we are fighting for a region, we are fighting for an idea, but most importantly we are fighting for people.”

Hinchey: Economic prosperity

Hein, along with Hinchey and others, pushed for over $8 million to pave roads in the region and Hein doesn’t believe in “bridges to nowhere”. Belleayre accounts for a significant portion of Ulster County’s $400 million tourism industry, according to the county exec."

"Several speakers mentioned the watershed agreement from 1997 where, in exchange for using local water for New York City, the state promised to aid with economic development for the region. Belleayre supporters have circulated petitions and gained nearly 4,000 signatures from people that are against job cuts on the mountain. "

If it were a private business, the $400 Million figure would be used to justify Tax Breaks and Financial Incentives to keep that pie from shrinking. Ulster County has a Republican dominated government and even they realize that those who have bought 2nd homes because of the mountain will want their property tax assessment lowered if it wasn't there. They look at it as spending a dime to make a dollar.

 

[dmc]

i just heard from an acquaintance that said she was laid off as a ski instructor from Belleayre.
And it was due to another round of state layoffs...

Is this true?

Cause from what I read - Bell is doing great and is breaking attendance records...
http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/2011/February/23/Belle_record-23Feb11.html