How to get better at skiing if you're already pretty good??

[St. Bear]

You're in the same boat as the rest of us. I consider myself at a pretty high skill level, but since I don't get more than 20-25 days on snow now I'm just not getting the time on the terrain I love. So the bumps and woods skills are behind when I do get in them. Night league racing is keeping my groomer skills sharp, but if I'm not on my race skis I still take it easy on the ice.

I'm averaging around 15 days a year since my son was born (this is going to be the third ski season). I can definitely see my ability regressing, and it's maddening.

One thing about lessons, while I agree with everyone saying it's important, try to line it up so you can ski the conditions that give you the most trouble. I took some lessons a few years ago, but whenever I went, the only thing open were groomers, and I didn't get much out of it.

 

[Nick]

I have not done anything but tele for the last 10 years or so. Before I made the switch to tele I really sucked at bumps. I am pretty good in the bumps on my tele skis. Well this year I actually bought a pair of alpine skis and boots and low and behold I can actually ski bumps with some confidence on them. I believe the tele skis helped with my balance and keeping my weight where it should be. Not sure where I am going with this but I think trying a different type of skiing actually helped me with my alpine skiing. Now ice is a different story...

Are you changing your username to smellyalpine? :lol:

 

[Nick]

My two tips for each respective issue.

Ice - the biggest thing for me with icy conditions is trust. Trust your skill and equipment and it will most likely do what you want it to do given your experience level. When you second guess it, you fall. THat and just he manning the hell out of it and making sure that edge is set. As soon as I stopped thinking about how I might fall on slick stuff and having the confidence to set the edge and make the turn I saw major improvement.

You know, I am super confident even on the iciest of slopes, if I'm just sliding down chattering along. I could skid forever. It's carving a hard turn on icy slopes that I have difficulty doing. It's like the edge just goes away once it gets onto the chatter. That's one thing I noticed at the AZ Summit. DHS, wa-loaf, cheese, those guys held an edge on everything, while I revert back to my pre-shaped ski days of just skidding each turn.

 

[kingslug]

You know, I am super confident even on the iciest of slopes, if I'm just sliding down chattering along. I could skid forever. It's carving a hard turn on icy slopes that I have difficulty doing. It's like the edge just goes away once it gets onto the chatter. That's one thing I noticed at the AZ Summit. DHS, wa-loaf, cheese, those guys held an edge on everything, while I revert back to my pre-shaped ski days of just skidding each turn.

When I'm on my powder boards there is no chance of really turning on ice..my Sultans can hold though. You really have to work the front shovels to get anywhere near a turn on super steep icy crap...its why I'm just not a fan of it..and know exactly where it will be on any given day or time at my prefered hill...

 

[Cheese]

Steep and ice, is the combo where more often the trend in modern ski design, softer and wider with some degree of rocker, actually works against many folks compared to a traditional, narrow, stiff, reverse cambered ski. That's really becoming apparent this year with the new FIS rules for GS skis where now they're basically shaped (or not shaped may be the more appropriate description ) like they were 20 years ago, and you'll still see the racers ripping big GS arcs on bulletproof snow, not because they're racers, but because the skis they're on are both tuned very well and are practically ice skates. This is one "niche" area where the much more versatile modern ski trends IMHO are actually a decrease in peformance for a good chunk of the folks sliding down the hill on any given day

Thank you for making this point! I'll just add that none of them try to do what they do on one type of ski. They have a quiver to choose from depending on which turning radius they want (slalom, giant slalom or downhill) and can even tune the base and side bevels based on the steepness of the race trail. Put a racer in the trees on those GS boards with a 7 degree side bevel and a .5 degree base bevel and they will look as sloppy as an "expert" sliding on ice.

 

[gmcunni]

PS. I wonder if ice skating helps? I tried ice skating last year for the first since I was a kid (probably 15 years) and I was horrible uncomfortable. I kind of thought they were similar tacks but I felt so awkward on ice skates I was shocked.

i think it does help some. a few years back i was in very good condition and skiing a lot. i also skated at least once a week and found my time on the ice was helpful in conditioning my legs and working on some ski technique.

went skiing a few years back with a bunch of kids, 1 of which was a big hockey player. the kids all took lessons and this kid took to skiing instantly. the instructor said he can always pick out the skaters in ski school.

 

[wa-loaf]

i think it does help some. a few years back i was in very good condition and skiing a lot. i also skated at least once a week and found my time on the ice was helpful in conditioning my legs and working on some ski technique.

went skiing a few years back with a bunch of kids, 1 of which was a big hockey player. the kids all took lessons and this kid took to skiing instantly. the instructor said he can always pick out the skaters in ski school.

I hardly skate, but when I have I think the carving feel is pretty similar. In addition skaters only have a few inches of blade under their feet giving them great balance.

 

[AdironRider]

You know, I am super confident even on the iciest of slopes, if I'm just sliding down chattering along. I could skid forever. It's carving a hard turn on icy slopes that I have difficulty doing. It's like the edge just goes away once it gets onto the chatter. That's one thing I noticed at the AZ Summit. DHS, wa-loaf, cheese, those guys held an edge on everything, while I revert back to my pre-shaped ski days of just skidding each turn.

I hear ya, and thats the hurdle to jump over.

I guess what I was trying to say is that if you think it will hold, it will hold kinda thing. You feel confident on ice, which is good, now feel confident you can carve.

Obviously, you need more leg strength and what have you when you get down to it, but sports is 90% mental.

 

[SkiFanE]

What does that mean?

Oops, fat finger typing on phone, cursor moved someplace and it picked up random characters. I am not a Singh lol.

 

[SkiFanE]

You have to have 100% faith in your equipment. On my volkl carvers I have it, they are like skiing on rails. My current SL and midfats, no. so I'll skid if I need to. If I cared about carving on ice, I'd use my volkls. Also, a sharp edge is key, sharpen sharpen sharpen.

Also agree on mental game. I took a big fall carving hard and fast, edge just lost it and I flew into air and landed hard, sore for a couple days and quit for that day. Haven't cared to ever do that again. Scared me, luckily trail was fenced for a race earlier that day so fence was there to stop me.

I hear ya, and thats the hurdle to jump over.

I guess what I was trying to say is that if you think it will hold, it will hold kinda thing. You feel confident on ice, which is good, now feel confident you can carve.

Obviously, you need more leg strength and what have you when you get down to it, but sports is 90% mental.

 

[spring_mountain_high]

.and know exactly where it will be on any given day or time at my prefered hill...

this is, to me, an under-acknowledged aspect of skiing well...knowing the terrain.

 

[Cheese]

You know, I am super confident even on the iciest of slopes, if I'm just sliding down chattering along. I could skid forever. It's carving a hard turn on icy slopes that I have difficulty doing. It's like the edge just goes away once it gets onto the chatter. That's one thing I noticed at the AZ Summit. DHS, wa-loaf, cheese, those guys held an edge on everything, while I revert back to my pre-shaped ski days of just skidding each turn.

Thanks for the cudos Nick. I can't speak for DHS or wa-loaf but I would say it's probably a lot more strength and concentration than most think it is. We just make it look easy. If I'm linking carved turns at extreme lean angles I am working my legs pretty darn hard and early season they'll get the same burn after a dozen or so turns that you talked about in powder and bumps at Magic. At the same time if I don't think about knee and toe pressure there's a good chance the edges I'm counting on will break free and at those lean angles I'm on my hip in a second. It's far easier for me to just set a simple carve and follow it out rather than forcing the short turn radius that allows more extreme lean angles. Like you, I can skid turns all day long. If I'm carving hard, I'm probably going to call it a day at 3:00 or at least quit skiing that way to conserve some leg strength.

the instructor said he can always pick out the skaters in ski school.

It's the one that checks the other kids until he's in second place right behind the instructor.

 

[ScottySkis]

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

Rollerblading is also good I believe.

 

[drjeff]

I consider myself an advanced skier who prefers expert terrain. Sometimes I ski like an expert, and other times I ski pretty poorly.

Some of it has to do with snow conditions and how tired I am. But there are at least 2 areas I see people from time to time straight up kicking my ass in terms of technique and ability.

One is icy stuff. On icy days most people are scraping around. I actually prefer to ski black diamonds on icy days because the bumps help me control my speed and the pitch assists with edge hold. But I see racers and other skiers of all ages from time to time skiing that stuff like it's corduroy. WTF? I have some race training so technically I know what I'm supposed to do.. but in reality it's pretty hard to ski that stuff well and really attack the slope and carve aggressive turns on that stuff. I'd rather just not.

Other is bumps and woods. I manage bumps fine, and I will ski any woods there are the steeper it is the more exciting it is for me. But I don't really do it fast. In the woods I don't really go fast unless they are low angle woods that I can just blow through. Part of it is fear of hitting a tree and messing myself up. Also I don't think I am good at planning long lines with confidence. I plan out 2 or 3 or 4 turns, and then have to slow way down to re-evaluate (if it's really steep or tight). But I see people here and there who handle even pretty hard woods like it's a bunny slope. WTF?

So have I reached the limits of my ability or what? I'd like to ski better, and be able to enjoy more variable conditions as well. It's just weird I have some really good days and some days it feels like I've regressed for whatever reason. Also it's weird that I ski steeps which require jump turns more comfortably than a blue square groomer sometimes.

How do advanced skiers become true experts. Not just people who like double diamond terrain but people who ski double diamond terrain like experts?

I've been skiing for like 26 years and now I am 30 so I am starting to think "pretty good" is as good as I might ever be.

Thanks for the cudos Nick. I can't speak for DHS or wa-loaf but I would say it's probably a lot more strength and concentration than most think it is. We just make it look easy. If I'm linking carved turns at extreme lean angles I am working my legs pretty darn hard and early season they'll get the same burn after a dozen or so turns that you talked about in powder and bumps at Magic. At the same time if I don't think about knee and toe pressure there's a good chance the edge I'm counting on will break free and at those lean angles I'm on my hip in a second. It's far easier for me to just set a simple carve and follow it out rather than forcing the short turn radius that allows more extreme lean angles. Like you, I can skid turns all day long. If I'm carving hard, I'm probably going to call it a day at 3:00 or at least quit skiing that way to conserve some leg strength.

Agree! If you're linking a bunch of high edge angle carved turns on a "firm" slope, you're getting a decent aerobic (and probably after a bunch of turns in your legs an anaerobic) workout pretty quickly! So much of it is just committing to the edge set from the transition point of one turn to the next and then getting on that edge and staying on that edge AT A CONSISTANT RADIUS throughout the entire turn!

Far too often for me, if I loose that high angle edge, chances are that I tried to make a significant alteration in my planned turn radius (usually trying to go from a longer to shorter radius) mid turn, then the chances of loosing that edge and entering the "skid zone" for me start going up a bunch

It does take a bunch of practice (and likely a number of falls onto one's inside hip) to get first both the basic concept of, and then the confidence to know that you can go to it, of REALLY clearing one's legs out from directly under their torso so that you can get those high edge angles set that does make holding a carved turn much easier on those steep, firm slopes. If you happen to be skiing on a stiffer, either traditional reverse cambered ski, or even a ski with just some slight tip rocker in it, and you're learning how to do this, there's a GOOD chance that you'll really get to experience (often as a suprise 1st ) what it feels like when you really load a ski and the spring it can give you when that energy releases as you finish one turn and transition into the next one. For me atleast that sensation of the ski unloading is just about as glorious and addictive as that sensation you get when you're truely floating inbetween turns in powder!

 

[millerm277]

It's a matter of pushing yourself intelligently. Find what is a "good challenge" for you, and keep hitting it until you get tired or master it.

I love lift rides over difficult terrain, because you can really watch what works and what doesn't with the people coming down, and learn from it.

If you just throw yourself in over your head, most people wind up in survival mode and don't/can't learn a whole lot from doing it, not to mention that the better you get, the more dangerous "over your head" terrain gets.

Also, it's worth noting gear. While you can tackle almost anything with almost anything, the wrong equipment for the conditions/your body, or untuned skis, can hold you back a great deal over what you should actually be able to do.

 

[Smellytele]

Are you changing your username to smellyalpine? :lol:

No I go both ways now
Actually I am racing again this year and want to be more competitive. On teles I just don't like being told when I have to turn. I got a used pair of Fischer RC4's. First race tonight we'll see if it helps at all.

 

[MadMadWorld]

I try to use really simple techniques to try and remind my body of what it's supposed to do and it usually works for me. Whether it's the gas pedal analogy for the bumps, overemphasizing keeping my hands out in front, pressing my shins against the front of my boots, etc.

 

[bdfreetuna]

So much of it is just committing to the edge set from the transition point of one turn to the next and then getting on that edge and staying on that edge AT A CONSISTANT RADIUS throughout the entire turn!

Good advice DrJeff ... I am going to focus on staying a constant radius better next time I'm out.

I agree the sensation of springing into the next turn edge to edge is a lot more fun than sliding out

 

[Cheese]

It does take a bunch of practice (and likely a number of falls onto one's inside hip) to get first both the basic concept of, and then the confidence to know that you can go to it, of REALLY clearing one's legs out from directly under their torso so that you can get those high edge angles set that does make holding a carved turn much easier on those steep, firm slopes.

Unfortunately this practice should be taking place on intermediate terrain rather than with your buddy on the expert slopes. It's on the lower level terrain that you can experiment with increased edge angle and learn to trust yourself and your equipment. All is not lost though because at the top or bottom of most expert runs there are green or blue sections. Most use the ones at the top to adjust gear while in motion (you've got time here Nick since you don't put your pole straps on anyway :blink and the ones at the bottom to rest and just let the skis run to the lift. It is in these sections that you can practice carving without leaving your group.

I think of them as decreasing radius turns with a ratcheting test and evaluation throughout the turn. In its simplest form, engage the edge, add some lean, if the edge is still holding, give a little more lean. The ratcheting steps are small and happen quickly. At each ratchet point the turn radius decreases until a point is reached where the edge starts to lose grip. At that failure point reduce the lean angle by a few ratchet points, back to where the radius was holding and ride it out.

You probably use this same "ratcheting" test with the gas pedal of your car on a snowy road. Depress the gas pedal, wait for an indication of positive traction then give the pedal a little more. When traction is lost, back off the gas pedal and continue at that acceleration rate instead.

If you happen to be skiing on a stiffer, either traditional reverse cambered ski, or even a ski with just some slight tip rocker in it, and you're learning how to do this, there's a GOOD chance that you'll really get to experience (often as a surprise 1st ) what it feels like when you really load a ski and the spring it can give you when that energy releases as you finish one turn and transition into the next one. For me at least that sensation of the ski unloading is just about as glorious and addictive as that sensation you get when you're truly floating in between turns in powder!

Well put!

 

[riverc0il]

Ski with skiers better than you in terrain that challenges you and do it often. Don't ski stuff you find easy and that you gravitate to, spend as much time as you can skiing stuff that you're not great at. But also... Dial in fundamentals on easier trails and then take those skills to the harder stuff. Focus on control. Slow things down to an absurd degree. Watch the movements of others that make it look effortless and try to duplicate what you see.

Someone mentioned lessons... but I would like to know has any one here jumped from advanced to "ski anything expert" by taking lessons? I think it is more important to watch, follow, emulate, and challenge yourself frequently. You have to be committed, you have to approach it from a very mental and analytic level. You have to make it your own and own it.

At a peak level of skiing skill... it is ALL about control. It is all about having something internal, your body needs to turn the skis in a primal way without your even thinking about it, complete unconscious reaction... eyes see, you feel the feedback from the snow and your skis, and the body moves...