Killington-Pico Interconnect...

[icedtea]

I nominate mondeo as most ill-informed killington skier ever.....

:flag:

 

[thorski]

All for the interconnect. How can expanding terrain be a bad thing?

 

[deadheadskier]

All for the interconnect. How can expanding terrain be a bad thing?

I'm an expansion whore myself, but Pico is a very unique area in and of itself. I could see how the Pico loyalist might be upset by the connection.

Though less extreme, it would be like connecting MRG to Sugarbush. Sure it would be awesome, but MRG would be MRG no more.

 

[thorski]

I'm an expansion whore myself, but Pico is a very unique area in and of itself. I could see how the Pico loyalist might be upset by the connection.

Though less extreme, it would be like connecting MRG to Sugarbush. Sure it would be awesome, but MRG would be MRG no more.

I think MRG and sugarbush are a different issue due to the fact that MRG keeps the knuckledraggers out, and this makes MRG seem like your stepping back in time when your there.
How do the people who own condos at pico feel? How would the interconnect effect property value?
Expansion is the american way-Bigger is better.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

If the base village needs to be built before the inter-connect I would say your looking at more than "5" years down the road for the inter-connect and the new lift pod. From what I understand the new trails between the two mountains would access some awesome terrain.

You could offer a Pico only ticket for the familes and other folks who just want to ski ski Pico and an all-mountain ticket for both. Hard to predict but I don't think it will change Pico all that much as most with an all-mountain will ski kmart especially since there will be a new fancy base village there.

 

[Highway Star]

If the base village needs to be built before the inter-connect I would say your looking at more than "5" years down the road for the inter-connect and the new lift pod. From what I understand the new trails between the two mountains would access some awesome terrain.

You could offer a Pico only ticket for the familes and other folks who just want to ski ski Pico and an all-mountain ticket for both. Hard to predict but I don't think it will change Pico all that much as most with an all-mountain will ski kmart especially since there will be a new fancy base village there.

Originally, they were both supposed to be built together, in phases.

At this point, they are very hard pressed to justify a village. IMHO, they are well served by building an interconnect first, even if it is just a traverse off Rams Head and one lift on Pico's southeast shoulder, with natural snow. More than enough natural snow to support green trails at that elevation for the peak season, and it's just one lift.

 

[RENO]

They need a major selling point for the village and the biggest and best idea is the Interconnect! Snowmaking, new lifts, etc... are great and I'm all for spending most of the money on snowmaking (don't really care about the village that much), but I can't see anything else that's gonna get people to buy property in the new village unless you're gonna give them something big to bring them in like the Interconnect. I can't imagine Pico surviving without it either. POWDR is just not gonna pour money into Pico at anything comparable to Killington. Especially in this economy. If it's put on the selling block, who's gonna buy it right now? I also don't believe that Pico will be destroyed by connecting it with K. :???: That's ridiculous. :lol:

 

[Highway Star]

They need a major selling point for the village and the biggest and best idea is the Interconnect! Snowmaking, new lifts, etc... are great and I'm all for spending most of the money on snowmaking (don't really care about the village that much), but I can't see anything else that's gonna get people to buy property in the new village unless you're gonna give them something big to bring them in like the Interconnect. I can't imagine Pico surviving without it either. POWDR is just not gonna pour money into Pico at anything comparable to Killington. Especially in this economy. If it's put on the selling block, who's gonna buy it right now? I also don't believe that Pico will be destroyed by connecting it with K. :???: That's ridiculous. :lol:

I have to agree (omg), but as I say above there's nothing stopping them from installing one lift on Pico side and a traverse off Ramshead. The traverse would be very similar to existing natural snow beginner runs like Solitude, and probably not even as flat as Carpenter's Run out of Needles eye. Make it just wide enough to get a snowcat down it. The lift on the pico side would be a standard fixed grip quad, about 1000ft of vert. This can be done new for about $1m or so, and used for much cheaper....but new would probably be better if there was to be more expansion. There is more than enough natural snw to support traverses in this area, and there could be some narrow natural snow trails and glades cut.

Later on, snowmaking could be added, and a new lift to the side of Rams head or to the top of rams head, etc, etc.

It makes no sense to try to do 2 lifts (one HSQ) and 100+ acres of trails with snowmaking in one season.....

 

[RENO]

I have to agree (omg)

What is this world coming too! :lol:
Anarchy...

 

[tekweezle]

the interconnect will get done....eventually. of course, that might be in 20 years or so.

it;s like the 2nd ave subway project here in NYC. Makes sense to some degree, hope it doesn;t bankrupt you in the process, someone will gain fabulously when it;s complete if you are willing to gut it out but probably just not those who are currently affected.

Ultimately, it comes down to available money-something we know is in short supply. maybe Powder corp has the power to levy some sort of assessment on Pico condo owners? Maybe they can get some stimulus money for capital improvements......you know, to provide construction jobs? Considering it was a good snow year, did they actually make money this season? Good snow supposedly trumps bad economy.

 

[tcharron]

What is this world coming too! :lol:
Anarchy...

I'm sure he's just prepping us for some other massive disagreement. Such as, how 1 million dollars is a small amount of money. :-D

 

[Rogman]

In simple terms, the Interconnect will be good for Killington (more terrain), bad for Pico (more masses). It will drastically change the traffic patterns, since it will provide a Western entrance for day trippers, saving 15 minutes over the top of Sherbourne pass and up the access road. Incremental steps on the Interconnect won't happen; they will need to maximize buzz to sell the village units.

 

[Highway Star]

Incremental steps on the Interconnect won't happen; they will need to maximize buzz to sell the village units.

I'm not sure I buy that....given the current skier visit levels, is the town going to approve a village when there are already so many empty beds? They need to start driving visits back up first, IMHO, by building the interconnect or at least starting it. They aren't going to get skier visits to increase by 30-40% in one year.

With the Village real estate, they want to sell in a strong market with high prices. While the greater market may have recovered by the time these units go on sale, what are the local factors? Even before the recent housing market colapse, Killington was flooded with properties going at low prices, due to the neglect under ASC and the lack of demand. Demand (skier visits) has not improved, though the skiing experence has.....somewhat.

Even with a strong economic recovery, Killington is going to have to work VERY hard to get to a point where people are ready to pay premium prices for real estate in a village.....say 5 years down the road. Frankly, I'm shocked that the SP Land's moneymen (E2M) aren't putting big money into the place. If they kiced in...$10M a year for the next 5 years, they would probably make it all back in profits once units went on sale.

Optimally, they want play the interconnect card correctly. They are doing it wrong right now, by saying "it's at least 5 years out and probably never unless you approve our Village".......BS. Probably means never, Village or not. What they SHOULD do, is time the construction of the interconnect so that it is open shortly before the Village realestate goes on sale....so 1 season before hand. That will signifigantly drive presale hype and draw in buyers. Agreeing to build the interconnect will also satisfy the town that they are bringing in more skiers to fill those new beds.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm wondering what POWR's ratio is in terms of skier visits gained for them to do the interconnect. My guess is 100K minimum to get a proper return on not only the investment, but the added overhead of running the lifts in that area and opening Pico back up midweek.

I'm not certain the interconnect would generate 100K more visits; perhaps the first year or two it's open, but no sustainably long term. I just don't view Killington size as being the same competitive advantage as it once was. All of the competition has come so far since the 80's and early 90's when that was a big advantage for them.

 

[Highway Star]

Any word on Killington improvements for next year? SpinmasterK???

 

[icedtea]

Do not go on Wheelerville unless you have a 4WD. MUD SEASON GOING ON!

Does not get super bad until you get passed Brewer's Corner.

 

[duncanH]

this is a great thread as a newer skier at killington. I was reading the history of killington this past weekend, the fact that asc gave up 3000 acres and a potential back bowl in the east for this area and the village, I hope something gets done with it. it's a shame that the former governor and all the environmental groups stopped pres smith from creating something that would have been so great on the east coast , instead we need to travel west to get any such riding