Nick Berg

[Greg]

Hannity.com has a link to the actual beheading. I haven't viewed it and I'm not sure I need to. My only inclination for viewing it would be to further solidify my views on why we need to defeat these barbarians, but I really don't think I need to view it to understand that. Has anyone else viewed it? If so, why?

 

[Stephen]

Notice how the media now refers to the prision abuses as just that? Within an hour, ABC NEws radio went from "atrocities in Iraqi prison", then the beheading story brokeat the bottom of the hour, and it became "abuses in the Iraqi prisions". By the top of the next hour it was "unprofessionalism in the IRaqi prison."

Now we've been reminded what a REAL atrocity is.

ANother note on liberal news media bias, in case you doubt it's there: CNBC does a 30 minute special on the power of images in the news. They take an AP Photo editor, and he shows photos of the Iraqi prisoners, then goes to Vietnam footage, the shooting of the VC, etc.

30 minutes on the "power of images in the newa" and not ONE photo from 9/11. Is there any doubt to the agenda. I"m just amazed that it's gotten that blatant... :angry:

-Stephen

 

[riverc0il]

Stephen, liberals say it's a conservative media... conservatives say it's a liberal media. We all view it through our own colored glasses and BOTH sides have statistics and examples to back up their arguement. Saying the media is biased is true, but not liberal or conservative. They are biased to the presentation of the news that nets them the most advertising dollars. Sometimes that means bringing in the liberal agenda, sometimes the conservative. Which ever makes more people watch and more people pay attention.

For myself, I normally see the media bias as conservative... BUT i keep reminding myself it's not the case. They are biased by a capitolist society that makes the media bias their reports both ways depending upon how well they can draw in views and ads and revenue. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for capitolism and it's benefits. However, the current system has gone amuck especially when you look at so called news sources. It's just one of the many reasons I do not own a TV, so much of it is just sensationalism to sell you images and feelings instead of news. Read an unbiased report online from unbiased sources and make up your own mind.

 

[SilentCal]

Don't really need to see it. They burned and hung some other Americans from a bridge a few weeks ago. You have to feel for this guys family. Nobody needs to see a family member die this way and then get it played through every media outlet. I'm afraid it will be front page news for awhile until the media gets something more disgusting to show us. What a mess this search for weapons of mass destruction has become.

 

[Greg]

I'll probably get flack for this, but what bugs me most about all of this is that no one in the Muslim-American community ever stands up to denounce such atrocities or other acts terrorism ('93 WTC attack, embassy bombings, Cole, 9/11, Daniel Pearl, hung Americans, Nick Berg, etc...). Why is that? Perhaps they are afraid of realizing the same fate as Nick?

Oh, and SilentCal - I don't get the link between what some psycho extremist barbarians did and the search for WMDs.

BTW, I still haven't watched the video.

 

[skican]

I am not watching...I have seen enough. I saw that poor guys dad collaspe into the grass. I could almost imagine what he was feeling. My heart just breaks for all the families. I have tears in my eyes right now just thinking about it.

I await the big Parking Lot! I pray for the parking lot. When I we really going to get mad! The whole world I mean. Good point about the muslims. How can they possibly figure that sawing off a civilians head is payback for the abused or whatever they were prisoners!

I have had the feeling of disgust all day!

 

[SilentCal]

The reason that many Americans are over in Iraq were based on weapons of mass destruction. We need to go back to the root cause of why we are there is the first place. Are we truly going to make Iraq a better place and leave it better than we arrived? I don't believe so. The Middle East has been the center of religious conflict for hundreds of years. We would have been foolish to think that such barbarian atrocities would have never happened. It happened to Daniel Pearl, It happened to Nick Berg and will continue to happen to Americans as long as we stick our nose into other people's affairs. Sorry if it sounds Un-American but can we start just taking care of our country for once. Maybe I just see this all differently....that's all.

 

[Stephen]

Um.... anyone remember 9/11? What did we do to cause that one?

Going to Iraq, Afghanistan, or even the prison misdemeanors are not the cause for Nick Berg's death. Twisted Islamo-facist savages are. :angry:

Sometimes the truth is harsh, but it's the truth nonetheless.

 

[Greg]

The reason that many Americans are over in Iraq were based on weapons of mass destruction. We need to go back to the root cause of why we are there is the first place. Are we truly going to make Iraq a better place and leave it better than we arrived? I don't believe so. The Middle East has been the center of religious conflict for hundreds of years. We would have been foolish to think that such barbarian atrocities would have never happened. It happened to Daniel Pearl, It happened to Nick Berg and will continue to happen to Americans as long as we stick our nose into other people's affairs. Sorry if it sounds Un-American but can we start just taking care of our country for once. Maybe I just see this all differently....that's all.

So we sit back and wait for another 9/11? Understand this - these people hate us and it's time to do some major clean-up. The whole situation is bad. It's war, it's ugly, but it's also necessary. Iraq is only one part of it.

 

[SilentCal]

So we should nuke them because they hate us? Might as well nuke the French, the Germans and anyone else who is anti-american. 9/11 was a lot of different things to different people. Sure we had every right to go into Afghanistan and bomb them back into the stone age to get at Bin Laden. When we killed or captured him, our crusade against global terror should have ended. Instead, an Axis of Evil was created and we had to enter a country that did not even have WMD. Now we are caught with our pants down and can't escape because we need to democratize these nutcases. Who are we to think our way of life is the best and who are we to try and push it on everyone. I don't want to argue with everyone but we really do got ourselves a jolly good mess.

 

[Stephen]

Iraq was a preemptive strike. THe UN themselves verified he HAD WMDs. The question isn't did he have them... it's where are they now?

The French and the Germans haven't (directly) killed us for about 60 years or so. I'd sooner nuke the Boston Globe as a propaganda machine for Saddam Hussein.

DO you honestly think that if we pulled out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea, and severed ties with Israel that they would just go away? Fat chance.

There is only one thing these savages understand... death. The sooner we send them on their way to their 72 virgins, the safer my children become. That's the bottom line for me.

-Stephen

 

[riverc0il]

And let's remember what they did on 9/11. They aimed directly at non combatants. Civilians!!!! Why doesn't the media emphasize this just a little more?

wait wait wait, hold on a damn second!! which "they" are you talking about? we're talking about iraq in this thread, right? name ONE iraqi that was part of the 9/11 plot? please. quite frankly, there are thousands more anti-american terrorists in the world now than there were before we entered iraq and over half the world's population now hates this great country of ours. let's just remember that the (justified and needed) vengence and retaliation for 9/11 ended in afganistan and the iraqi operation is something different. iraq was pre-emptive action because of fear saddam would supply terrorist with WMD. though also remember, saddam and bin-laden HATED each other and would never have done business. there's more to fear in this world than iraqi WMD, it's n.korea and where is bin laden that should be scaring the shit out of us right now.

lets look at middle east history. go back hundreds and hundreds of years and you'll notice a trend in that country... every time another country got involved, they walked away hurting. hopefully things will be different now... but the seathing hate directed toward the US, especially after the abuse pictures, is only going to get worse and the USA is only going to face higher and higher risks of danger because we create more terrorists daily. my prediction is things are only gonna get worse in the coming months and years for us... time to buckle down for the long haul regardless of what happens in iraq.

 

[Stephen]

There wasn't 1 iraqi in that room when Berg was killed, we're talking Al qaeda... In Iraq... where they've been welcome, supported, and harbored. By that very act, they fall under the "against us" clause of the administration's, thus the people's, policy.

It was a long haul long before Iraq happened.

 

[SilentCal]

Al-quada is everywhere. Somalia, Indonesia, Spain, Iraq, Afganistan, Pakistan, Canada and the good old USA have Al-quada cells operating. THOSE guys are the enemy. Not Iraqis. Al-quada is now fostering in Iraq because of the power vaccum we have caused. ahh dammit this ain't Mountains and Molehills and I'll shut up now.

 

[Jaytrek57]

That felt good.

Wrote a page atop my soapbox and then...........I hit the delete button! :wink: Going to do that more often I think.

My prayers to our boys & girls in Iraq and elsewhere.

 

[Greg]

It was a long haul long before Iraq happened.

Well said. What would the reaction had been in July or August of 2001 if Bush started sending B52s to Afghanistan to drop daisy cutters on the Taliban? Probably would have been criticized like he is now, eh? Look, 9/11 changed some things. The game is a bit different now and I personally don't care what the rest of the world thinks. If Al Queda is in Iraq now, while we are occupying the country, don't think for a second they weren't there when Saddam was in power. The very fact that they were allowed to exist there is reason enough for me to remove Saddam from power.

 

[pedxing]

I don't think the Iraq war made sense in terms of the war on terror. Iraq hadn't been involved in terror since 1993. What we've done is heighten anit-American tensions and created fantastic recruitment tools for Al-Qeda. The Iraq war has also sucked energy and resources from the real war on terror and kept us under-manned in Afhanistan (which is important in the war on terror).

The Berg thing was an atrocity - no doubt about that. The monsters behind it need to be stopped, no question. Same with the monsters behind 9/11. It's just that I'm convinced, along with Richard Clark - who understood Al-Qeda long before most anyone else - that we are not fighting smart. We won the cold war through toughness, patience and intelligence - the same things need to be in place here.

By the way - anyone remember the intense criticism of Clinton when he tried to take out Bin Laden?

That and the impeachment crisis gave Clinton cold feet and kept him from pushing the Bin Laden hunt as hard as it should have been pushed - for that Clinton deserves some criticism, too.

 

[Stephen]

Ah, but don't forget, he didn't go after Laden before he went after him. :lol:

 

[pedxing]

I don't really know what the answer is, but i hate to keep hearing about our boys getting killed while on patrol. The "picture" I get is that they are sitting ducks and (my perception) little is being done to prevent them from continuing to be sitting ducks.

I definitely agree with this. I think we needed more people in Iraq (given that we were going in, which I do think was a mistake) - remmebr the dipsute over how many troops were needed? Rumsfeld and crew say it was far less than some of the top military brass said - and Rumsfeld got his way.

I gotta add, we've got a lot of quality people on the ground in Iraq and most of them pretty young. If not for the quality of the people there, things would be much worse. We've seen what a few messed up folks can do, we owe the vast majority of our miilitary people much gratitude and respect.

Mebbe I shoulda just said "I agree with Silent Cal."

 

[pedxing]

Bob, I checked it out and it looks to be for real. The man is definitely a credit to his uniform and his country. See the official version at: http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723

Rolling Stone carried a story about the heroism of Private Piestewa. who lost her life in the attack that resulted in Jessica Lynch's caprture.