Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[Andrew B.]

I'm sorry you feel that way and I've always respected your opinions and posting style even when we disagree on topics.

This would be one of those times. I simply read that website and don't see a see a serious MD. I see someone that does know more about medicine than I ever will. Malone has accomplished a lot. But there is a major movement of people fighting back against mandates. You see it in this thread. The right wing has turned "mandates" into a big scary word like "socialism" or "antifa" . Or how about "big pharma". It's a rallying cry. So, it's an opportunity to get airtime with a specific audience and make a name for himself.

Serious MDs looking to make change are using channels such as NEJM to influence change and build coalition, not talk shows like JoePrah. I can't take Malone seriously for the same reason I don't take Dr Oz or Sanjay Gupta seriously. They're about being stars and making money. That's it.

Anyways, if you do move on, I'll miss your contributions and I wish for you a great season.

You do know them at a significant portion of the far left is also antivax too right?

It amazes me that a significant portion of my college aged sons friends who were at and supporting BLM marches that refuse to vaccinate.

Many of which are now Covid positive. Go figure.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

the hippie dippity burning man anti vax idiots are a teeny tiny percentage of the overall anti vax idiots, who are predominantly of the right, and you know it.

 

[ThatGuy]

You do know them at a significant portion of the far left is also antivax too right?

It amazes me that a significant portion of my college aged sons friends who were at and supporting BLM marches that refuse to vaccinate.

Many of which are now Covid positive. Go figure.

Its the right-wing people that are making it their identity to be anti-vax at this point. Left-wing people without the vax are being looked down upon by their own party. Get beyond the partisan bs that is infecting people even worse than Covid.

 

[machski]

Asymptomatic people are infectious also.

True, but when are/were they infectious? If they are asymptomatic and just happen to do a home self test some particular day, do they have a clue WHEN they got infected? It is possible by the time they test they are no longer or minimally infectious on the way to not. This is the hard part with asymptomatic folks. Unless they are testing daily, hard to track their infectious period.

 

[Andrew B.]

Its the right-wing people that are making it their identity to be anti-vax at this point. Left-wing people without the vax are being looked down upon by their own party. Get beyond the partisan bs that is infecting people even worse than Covid.

the people I know that I am qualifying as far left do not identify with either party. Most consider themselves Socialists and want nothing to do with Democratic Party.

Yes and some have gone to burning man and it may be a smaller percentage but it’s out there.
To ignore it is just refusing to look beyond your own hang ups. It’s just easier if there is only one boogie man to blame for all of our troubles.

 

[abc]

True, but when are/were they infectious? If they are asymptomatic and just happen to do a home self test some particular day, do they have a clue WHEN they got infected? It is possible by the time they test they are no longer or minimally infectious on the way to not. This is the hard part with asymptomatic folks. Unless they are testing daily, hard to track their infectious period.

It is also possible that that they're just at the beginning of becoming infective!

Throwing the baby out with the bath water?

 

[ThatGuy]

the people I know that I am qualifying as far left do not identify with either party. Most consider themselves Socialists and want nothing to do with Democratic Party.

Yes and some have gone to burning man and it may be a smaller percentage but it’s out there.
To ignore it is just refusing to look beyond your own hang ups. It’s just easier if there is only one boogie man to blame for all of our troubles.

I don’t need any boogie men theres plenty of real morons out there already. My political beliefs would surprise you, they are irrelevant though. Fact of the matter is the main purveyors of anti-vax ideology are right-wing at the moment.

 

[drjeff]

the hippie dippity burning man anti vax idiots are a teeny tiny percentage of the overall anti vax idiots, who are predominantly of the right, and you know it.

When per CDC data, just over 10% of the African American population is fully vaccinated (and the African American population makes up just under 13% of the total US population per 2021 data), that's a sizable number of unvaccinated (likely about 30 million people) whom I think we can agree tends to vote left way more than right.

COVID Data Tracker

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.

covid.cdc.gov

This virus unfortunately HAS become politcized, and that it just a terrible thing that regardless of one's ideological leanings, we all should be upset with our various politcial figures AND the media for the role that they have played, and are still often playing, in COVID

 

[johnl87]

imagine if the "anti-vaxers" were actually anti-vax? like, demanding that vaccines be banned, and that anyone who takes the vaccine be terminated from their job?

 

[abc]

This virus unfortunately HAS become politcized, and that it just a terrible thing that regardless of one's ideological leanings, we all should be upset with our various politcial figures AND the media for the role that they have played, and are still often playing, in COVID

Care to guess who started to make the virus a political one? Remember when it was "just a hoax"?

Once it's politicized, it's much harder to "unpoliticize" it!

 

[drjeff]

Care to guess who started to make the virus a political one? Remember when it was "just a hoax"?

Once it's politicized, it's much harder to "unpoliticize" it!

And I seem to remeber as well that the current occupant of the Whitehouse as well as the current VP and many of the leadership of the Democrat party also had plenty of anti-vaxx hyperbole prior to the 2020 elections just before the vaccines rolled out to the general public.

Again, BOTH parties have plenty of blame from the outset, during, and still for so many things COVID.

The common denominator in this often is our government, and not just one's ideology, as both parties seem to govern in a way to help rile up their bases to keep them in power, rather than govern in a way that is best for the country as a whole

 

[VTKilarney]

I handle Covid tracking at my place of employment. Anecdotally, it seems like the vaccine is pretty ineffective against Omicron. We are seeing all sorts of breakthrough cases. Fortunately nobody has gotten that sick, regardless of their vaccination status.

Vermont just recorded 1,700 cases today - which likely doesn't include a lot of the results from the home test kits that they handed out a couple of weeks ago. We have been blowing daily records out of the water.

My hunch is that Omicron will peak in the next couple of weeks and by early spring we should enjoy the beginning of a nice quiet period.

It is interesting how, now that the laptop class is getting sick with Covid, they are no longer shaming people for it.

 

[HowieT2]

When per CDC data, just over 10% of the African American population is fully vaccinated (and the African American population makes up just under 13% of the total US population per 2021 data), that's a sizable number of unvaccinated (likely about 30 million people) whom I think we can agree tends to vote left way more than right.

COVID Data Tracker

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.

covid.cdc.gov

This virus unfortunately HAS become politcized, and that it just a terrible thing that regardless of one's ideological leanings, we all should be upset with our various politcial figures AND the media for the role that they have played, and are still often playing, in COVID

I hate chiming in on these threads but what you stated above is a gross bit of misinformation. per the cdc, african americans make up 10% of the total vaccinated population. Not as you stated, "just over 10% of the African American population is fully vaccinated".
Per the CDC, "Between November 29 and December 13, vaccination rates increased by 1.0 percentage points for Black people (from 50.3% to 51.3%), by 1.1 percentage points for Hispanic people (from 55.3% to 56.4%), and by 1.2 percentage points for Asian people (from 75.3% to 76.5%). In contrast, they remained roughly stable for White people (at 58%). Over the course of the vaccination rollout, differences between vaccination rates for Black, Hispanic, and White people have narrowed, and the gap between rates for White and Hispanic people has nearly closed. Between late April 2021, when most adults became eligible for vaccines across states, and December 13, 2021, the gap in vaccination rates between White and Black people fell from 14 percentage points (38% vs. 24%) to 7 percentage points (58% vs. 51%) while the difference between White and Hispanic vaccination rates decreased from 13 percentage points (38% vs. 25%) to two percentage points (58% vs. 56%).

 

[drjeff]

I hate chiming in on these threads but what you stated above is a gross bit of misinformation. per the cdc, african americans make up 10% of the total vaccinated population. Not as you stated, "just over 10% of the African American population is fully vaccinated".
Per the CDC, "Between November 29 and December 13, vaccination rates increased by 1.0 percentage points for Black people (from 50.3% to 51.3%), by 1.1 percentage points for Hispanic people (from 55.3% to 56.4%), and by 1.2 percentage points for Asian people (from 75.3% to 76.5%). In contrast, they remained roughly stable for White people (at 58%). Over the course of the vaccination rollout, differences between vaccination rates for Black, Hispanic, and White people have narrowed, and the gap between rates for White and Hispanic people has nearly closed. Between late April 2021, when most adults became eligible for vaccines across states, and December 13, 2021, the gap in vaccination rates between White and Black people fell from 14 percentage points (38% vs. 24%) to 7 percentage points (58% vs. 51%) while the difference between White and Hispanic vaccination rates decreased from 13 percentage points (38% vs. 25%) to two percentage points (58% vs. 56%).

Thank you for clarifying that.

My underlying point still holds though with only just over 50% of the African American community vaccinated thus far, which is still millions of people, and they very often aren't of the Far Right as Kusty was insinuating is making up the bulk of the non vaccinated problem now the way that I read that OP

 

[icecoast1]

Care to guess who started to make the virus a political one? Remember when it was "just a hoax"?

In the context it was actually said, he was 100 percent correct, and judging by the way things went down last election cycle, the current people in power were highly successful at using the pandemic for political gains.

Also if you think we didn't do enough early on, perhaps you should be looking to government bureaucratic hacks like Anthony Fauci pretending to be an expert in public health. I guess the evil orange man does deserve 100 percent of the blame for not firing that guy long before he was allowed to implement disastrous public health policy on this country

 

[HowieT2]

Thank you for clarifying that.

My underlying point still holds though with only just over 50% of the African American community vaccinated thus far, which is still millions of people, and they very often aren't of the Far Right as Kusty was insinuating is making up the bulk of the non vaccinated problem now the way that I read that OP

your point does not hold. the percent of african americans vaccinated is just below that of whites and hispanics. There is no significant difference but you can believe what you want to believe. The facts are that republicans, be they white, black hispanic, green or whatever, make up the lions share of the unvaccinated.

 

[2Planker]

I also believe that more people are testing positive as more people have access to home test kits and are testing themselves especially around the holidays. Even though they are asymptomatic.

Those tests are NOT accurate if you are asymptomatic !!!!!!
At home tests are for Day 3 w/ symptoms

 

[boston_e]

And I seem to remeber as well that the current occupant of the Whitehouse as well as the current VP and many of the leadership of the Democrat party also had plenty of anti-vaxx hyperbole prior to the 2020 elections just before the vaccines rolled out to the general public.

You only remember that because you listened to right wing media who took Biden's comments out of context to stir up the base.

What Biden actually said was: "Let me be clear. I trust vaccines. I trust scientists. But I don't trust Donald Trump." (Which given how Trump had botched the handling of the pandemic to that point was a very fair statement)

This idea that Biden and Harris were spouting antivax / distrust of vaccines was declared false by Politifact:

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/

 

[SnowRock]

your point does not hold. the percent of african americans vaccinated is just below that of whites and hispanics. There is no significant difference but you can believe what you want to believe. The facts are that republicans, be they white, black hispanic, green or whatever, make up the lions share of the unvaccinated.

So in the past, education level was always the #1 factor in determining attitudes towards vaccines/vaccination status at large. As this pandemic has continued, party affiliation has risen to the top of the list.

 

[VTKilarney]

You only remember that because you listened to right wing media who took Biden's comments out of context to stir up the base.

What Biden actually said was: "Let me be clear. I trust vaccines. I trust scientists. But I don't trust Donald Trump." (Which given how Trump had botched the handling of the pandemic to that point was a very fair statement)

This idea that Biden and Harris were spouting antivax / distrust of vaccines was declared false by Politifact:

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...harris-doubted-trump-covid-19-vaccines-not-v/

It was still a really shitty thing to say. They knew that the FDA approved vaccines - not Trump. It was meant to plant the seed of doubt in Trump's ability to get a vaccine out there - and the only reason they said it was for their own political gain.

Harris also said this with no evidence whatsoever (and to date no evidence):
When asked by Bash whether she thought that public health experts and scientists would get the last word on the efficacy of a vaccine, Harris predicted that they will not.
"If past is prologue that they will not, they'll be muzzled, they'll be suppressed, they will be sidelined," Harris said.

Here is what the actual person in charge had to say:
Moncef Slaoui, the chief adviser to Operation Warp Speed, said in an interview with Science published Thursday that he would resign from his role if there was undue interference in the Covid-19 vaccine effort.
"I have to say there has been absolutely no interference," he continued, adding that he would be "out" if he saw a push for a US Food and Drug Administration emergency use authorization that he didn't believe in.

So, yeah, Harris was at best reckless in her comments. Her words were chosen very carefully, but the intent was to undermine the public's confidence in any vaccine that was developed under the Trump administration - despite evidence that Trump had not interfered with the process. That's shameless.

But I'm old enough to remember when it was racist to ban flights from certain countries to stem the spread and Covid and to put kids in cages. How quickly that changed once the shoe was on the other foot.