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I am under the impression that saddleback needs to owned for ten years so the owners have no capital gains on sale, but I could be wrong on thatSaddleback wants to be bought out. Angling for Vail to be the buyer. Saddleback is making money again on real estate, but it will be interesting to see where their skier visits settle
Arctaris said its a 7-10 year plan then they cash out.Yes speculation I hear on the part of condo owners up there. Arctaris has been clear they don’t want to stay in the ski industry game for the long haul. Thought they said less than ten years but don’t have a reference. Types of improvements they are doing would fit with a vail resort and vail has the capital as has been reported in the press.
Those would be your words, not mine.
I am strictly speaking Saddleback vs Shawnee, as Shawnee is not on the Boyne pass this year. Taking the mega pass out of the equation.
I expect Saddleback to join one (assume Ikon) in the near future.
So you're saying that Saddleback isn't competing with Boyne for season pass business?
You serious Clark?
Throw Ikon on top of that and it becomes even more of a compelling argument against going with a SB pass. Also now Boyne has two properties within day trip range of Boston.
I did ski there last season. Ive already booked our February ski vacation there again this year.
As awesome as SB is and with the game changing quad, they still have to steal significant market share from Boyne to survive. That is very difficult to do in their location as an individual mountain in a largely megapass driven market.
What were their skier visit numbers last season?
That depends on whether there is real estate potential. If boyne has shown one thing, they will invest in real estate access and on mountain dining/event space.West expansion would be great. There's like 1200 vertical of very solid pitch. Could expand the terrain by like 30-40%.
Unlikely to ever happen now though. People want more terrain, they can just drive an hour up the road to Sunday River
72K to answer your question.
That depends on whether there is real estate potential. If boyne has shown one thing, they will invest in real estate access and on mountain dining/event space.
So basically the same as under prior ownership, but now having the added financial burden of a HSQ. Best year under the Berry's I can find information for is 97k skier visits.
Which gets back to my point that being competitive in the Maine market from Augusta south where the population is high is critical for long term viability. It's a longer ride from Metro Boston to SB than it is Sugarloaf (only slightly I know), but it's a tough commitment for most weekend warriors, nevermind day trippers. Southern Maine, coastal NH and Boston North in Mass is their market.
As stated, I lived in Portland for a few years. Everyone I knew fell in two camps. They either had an ASC pass or Shawnee. Now they get to have all three on the same pass.
Maybe Boyne buying Shawnee won't have a major impact on skier visits and pass sales, but it's definitely not a good thing. The opposite would have been a very good thing for Saddleback. I.e. SB purchased Shawnee. I'd buy that all day over a SL/SR pass.
I read Boyne's release https://www.boyneresorts.com/press-releases/20211022-shawnee-peak-purchase and they plan to keep Shawnee only passes and products, though I am sure it joins the NEP next season. Boyne may even toss a few Shawnee Days as a preview to NEP holders this year at a later date.
I wonder if this marks the end of Night/Twilight skiing at SR. They have been trimming the hours back and being just Dreammaker and Escapade plus SOuth Ridge, it isn't really much of a product. Once Shawnee is on the NEP, I for one would prefer the drive over to SHawnee if I intend to night ski as they have a real product. Many from MA may swing by Friday night on the way up too.
Finally, the current Summit Triple at Shawnee is Loon's old North Peak Triple. Given the North Peak Express is on the 2030 Flightplan to be replaced, it would be quite interesting if this HSQ made its way to Shawnee to replace the summit triple. Pretty sure that would be a first but can totally now see this happening.
Does this purchase change the dynamic in the greater Boston area between alterra/boyne vs epic ?
Hard to tell as we don't yet know how Boyne, and separately Alterra, may integrate Shawnee into their products. You would have to think that Shawnee joins the NEP for 22-23, but if it joins Ikon is up in the air. Boyne may want it to but Alterra could oppose it or vice versa. Boyne has made a big point that stand alone season passes will continue to be offered for Shawnee, which makes me think it may only be included in Gold tiers and up on the NEP. Have to wait and see, but seems Boyne is committed to Shawnee's local market.Does this purchase change the dynamic in the greater Boston area between alterra/boyne vs epic ?
Hard to tell as we don't yet know how Boyne, and separately Alterra, may integrate Shawnee into their products. You would have to think that Shawnee joins the NEP for 22-23, but if it joins Ikon is up in the air. Boyne may want it to but Alterra could oppose it or vice versa. Boyne has made a big point that stand alone season passes will continue to be offered for Shawnee, which makes me think it may only be included in Gold tiers and up on the NEP. Have to wait and see, but seems Boyne is committed to Shawnee's local market.
True, but a full on NEP early season at the Platinum Level is close to $1400. Gold early is around $1150. Closest to Shawnee's full price in NEP is the restricted Silver at around the same pricing. SO I would assume they will keep a full Shawnee only product at a discounted price off a Gold NEP. They perhaps may even trim a bit off the full Shawnee price, likely dependant on how integrated they make it with the other pass mixes (NEP and IKON). IKON front again is multi dependant on Boyne AND Alterra being in agreement on direction there, should that be in consideration. I could see Alterra's interest in Shawnee just to add the Portland night ski market into that pass draw.It will be interesting to see what Boyne means by being committed to the local market. Shawnee was far from cheap as an independent ski area except for certain midweek and night skiing specials. Not sure what their early bird price was, but a full adult season pass is $825 right now. Compare that to similar sized Ragged that is $699 and was as low as $349 early bird.