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Shawnee Peak Maine acquired by Boyne

Cobbold

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Saddleback wants to be bought out. Angling for Vail to be the buyer. Saddleback is making money again on real estate, but it will be interesting to see where their skier visits settle
How do you know, they are angling for vail?
 

Cobbold

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Saddleback wants to be bought out. Angling for Vail to be the buyer. Saddleback is making money again on real estate, but it will be interesting to see where their skier visits settle
I am under the impression that saddleback needs to owned for ten years so the owners have no capital gains on sale, but I could be wrong on that
 
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Yes speculation I hear on the part of condo owners up there. Arctaris has been clear they don’t want to stay in the ski industry game for the long haul. Thought they said less than ten years but don’t have a reference. Types of improvements they are doing would fit with a vail resort and vail has the capital as has been reported in the press.
 

ThatGuy

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Yes speculation I hear on the part of condo owners up there. Arctaris has been clear they don’t want to stay in the ski industry game for the long haul. Thought they said less than ten years but don’t have a reference. Types of improvements they are doing would fit with a vail resort and vail has the capital as has been reported in the press.
Arctaris said its a 7-10 year plan then they cash out.

“Tower concedes that profits will be a long time coming at Saddleback. “We don’t expect to realize the profit on our investment until we sell the mountain,” he said. “This is a seven-to-ten-year project.” Still, he’s hopeful. “When we got to Rangeley,” he said, “the prevailing winds were already blowing in the right direction. People really wanted the mountain to reopen.”
 

Newpylong

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Those would be your words, not mine.

I am strictly speaking Saddleback vs Shawnee, as Shawnee is not on the Boyne pass this year. Taking the mega pass out of the equation.

I expect Saddleback to join one (assume Ikon) in the near future.

So you're saying that Saddleback isn't competing with Boyne for season pass business?

You serious Clark?

Throw Ikon on top of that and it becomes even more of a compelling argument against going with a SB pass. Also now Boyne has two properties within day trip range of Boston.

I did ski there last season. Ive already booked our February ski vacation there again this year.

As awesome as SB is and with the game changing quad, they still have to steal significant market share from Boyne to survive. That is very difficult to do in their location as an individual mountain in a largely megapass driven market.

What were their skier visit numbers last season?

72K to answer your question.
 

thebigo

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West expansion would be great. There's like 1200 vertical of very solid pitch. Could expand the terrain by like 30-40%.

Unlikely to ever happen now though. People want more terrain, they can just drive an hour up the road to Sunday River
That depends on whether there is real estate potential. If boyne has shown one thing, they will invest in real estate access and on mountain dining/event space.
 

deadheadskier

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72K to answer your question.

So basically the same as under prior ownership, but now having the added financial burden of a HSQ. Best year under the Berry's I can find information for is 97k skier visits.

Which gets back to my point that being competitive in the Maine market from Augusta south where the population is high is critical for long term viability. It's a longer ride from Metro Boston to SB than it is Sugarloaf (only slightly I know), but it's a tough commitment for most weekend warriors, nevermind day trippers. Southern Maine, coastal NH and Boston North in Mass is their market.

As stated, I lived in Portland for a few years. Everyone I knew fell in two camps. They either had an ASC pass or Shawnee. Now they get to have all three on the same pass.

Maybe Boyne buying Shawnee won't have a major impact on skier visits and pass sales, but it's definitely not a good thing. The opposite would have been a very good thing for Saddleback. I.e. SB purchased Shawnee. I'd buy that all day over a SL/SR pass.
 

deadheadskier

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That depends on whether there is real estate potential. If boyne has shown one thing, they will invest in real estate access and on mountain dining/event space.

From what Ive read, the talked about west face expansion was all about selling more condos. They only have a limited amount currently.
 

Mainer

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I love and hate this purchase at the same time. Sunday River and Shawnee on the same pass are really nice. I might get the pass next year. Shawnee is 15 minutes away, Sunday River is under an hour.
I’ve had a few problems over the years with Shawnee. Season passes are expensive. Kids 5 and under had to pay to ride lift. If it snowed too much they closed the mountain. Last year the midweek opening time was 11, couldn’t get some runs in before work. Everything should be more consistent now.
But I hate that the feel of the place will completely change. It had a good vibe. Everyone is super friendly, it’s not usually crowded. Bar is nice. It definitely going to feel more corporate there, have that chain restaurant feel. We are losing our independent hills.
 

Newpylong

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So basically the same as under prior ownership, but now having the added financial burden of a HSQ. Best year under the Berry's I can find information for is 97k skier visits.

Which gets back to my point that being competitive in the Maine market from Augusta south where the population is high is critical for long term viability. It's a longer ride from Metro Boston to SB than it is Sugarloaf (only slightly I know), but it's a tough commitment for most weekend warriors, nevermind day trippers. Southern Maine, coastal NH and Boston North in Mass is their market.

As stated, I lived in Portland for a few years. Everyone I knew fell in two camps. They either had an ASC pass or Shawnee. Now they get to have all three on the same pass.

Maybe Boyne buying Shawnee won't have a major impact on skier visits and pass sales, but it's definitely not a good thing. The opposite would have been a very good thing for Saddleback. I.e. SB purchased Shawnee. I'd buy that all day over a SL/SR pass.

Time will tell.
 

machski

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I read Boyne's release https://www.boyneresorts.com/press-releases/20211022-shawnee-peak-purchase and they plan to keep Shawnee only passes and products, though I am sure it joins the NEP next season. Boyne may even toss a few Shawnee Days as a preview to NEP holders this year at a later date.
I wonder if this marks the end of Night/Twilight skiing at SR. They have been trimming the hours back and being just Dreammaker and Escapade plus SOuth Ridge, it isn't really much of a product. Once Shawnee is on the NEP, I for one would prefer the drive over to SHawnee if I intend to night ski as they have a real product. Many from MA may swing by Friday night on the way up too.
Finally, the current Summit Triple at Shawnee is Loon's old North Peak Triple. Given the North Peak Express is on the 2030 Flightplan to be replaced, it would be quite interesting if this HSQ made its way to Shawnee to replace the summit triple. Pretty sure that would be a first but can totally now see this happening.
 

Cobbold

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I read Boyne's release https://www.boyneresorts.com/press-releases/20211022-shawnee-peak-purchase and they plan to keep Shawnee only passes and products, though I am sure it joins the NEP next season. Boyne may even toss a few Shawnee Days as a preview to NEP holders this year at a later date.
I wonder if this marks the end of Night/Twilight skiing at SR. They have been trimming the hours back and being just Dreammaker and Escapade plus SOuth Ridge, it isn't really much of a product. Once Shawnee is on the NEP, I for one would prefer the drive over to SHawnee if I intend to night ski as they have a real product. Many from MA may swing by Friday night on the way up too.
Finally, the current Summit Triple at Shawnee is Loon's old North Peak Triple. Given the North Peak Express is on the 2030 Flightplan to be replaced, it would be quite interesting if this HSQ made its way to Shawnee to replace the summit triple. Pretty sure that would be a first but can totally now see this happening.
 

Cobbold

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Does this purchase change the dynamic in the greater Boston area between alterra/boyne vs epic ?
 

thebigo

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Does this purchase change the dynamic in the greater Boston area between alterra/boyne vs epic ?

The short answer is no. Operational incompetence on the part of vail is more impactful. Now, if i logged onto AZ tomorrow and saw that Alterra took over gunstock, epic would be cooked in greater Boston.

The long answer is that this is a significant move. 1.5+ million people live in southeast nh and Southern Maine. We like to ski and have money; 'we' being one of the 1.5 million. The corner of Maine near Shawnee is very attractive. Property is reasonably priced, it is relatively accessible, there are gorgeous lakes and rivers, North conway is a reasonabe drive for dinner and other things wives and kids like to do.

I found myself looking at property in the Shawnee region yesterday after I read this news. Lake front new construction can be had for $600k, less than half price the comparable property in NH.
 

deadheadskier

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Yes, nevermind the low property taxes. I've long considered Bridgton as a potential retirement spot. Great area.
 

machski

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Does this purchase change the dynamic in the greater Boston area between alterra/boyne vs epic ?
Hard to tell as we don't yet know how Boyne, and separately Alterra, may integrate Shawnee into their products. You would have to think that Shawnee joins the NEP for 22-23, but if it joins Ikon is up in the air. Boyne may want it to but Alterra could oppose it or vice versa. Boyne has made a big point that stand alone season passes will continue to be offered for Shawnee, which makes me think it may only be included in Gold tiers and up on the NEP. Have to wait and see, but seems Boyne is committed to Shawnee's local market.
 

deadheadskier

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Hard to tell as we don't yet know how Boyne, and separately Alterra, may integrate Shawnee into their products. You would have to think that Shawnee joins the NEP for 22-23, but if it joins Ikon is up in the air. Boyne may want it to but Alterra could oppose it or vice versa. Boyne has made a big point that stand alone season passes will continue to be offered for Shawnee, which makes me think it may only be included in Gold tiers and up on the NEP. Have to wait and see, but seems Boyne is committed to Shawnee's local market.

It will be interesting to see what Boyne means by being committed to the local market. Shawnee was far from cheap as an independent ski area except for certain midweek and night skiing specials. Not sure what their early bird price was, but a full adult season pass is $825 right now. Compare that to similar sized Ragged that is $699 and was as low as $349 early bird.
 

machski

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It will be interesting to see what Boyne means by being committed to the local market. Shawnee was far from cheap as an independent ski area except for certain midweek and night skiing specials. Not sure what their early bird price was, but a full adult season pass is $825 right now. Compare that to similar sized Ragged that is $699 and was as low as $349 early bird.
True, but a full on NEP early season at the Platinum Level is close to $1400. Gold early is around $1150. Closest to Shawnee's full price in NEP is the restricted Silver at around the same pricing. SO I would assume they will keep a full Shawnee only product at a discounted price off a Gold NEP. They perhaps may even trim a bit off the full Shawnee price, likely dependant on how integrated they make it with the other pass mixes (NEP and IKON). IKON front again is multi dependant on Boyne AND Alterra being in agreement on direction there, should that be in consideration. I could see Alterra's interest in Shawnee just to add the Portland night ski market into that pass draw.
 
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