Superpasses: more crowds?

[KustyTheKlown]

eh, probably not. the population are all down in manchester, concord, nashua, portsmouth. those people aren't working ski areas, they work in boston and southern nh.

 

[Greg]

Bravo line today at 10:25 am. No Ikon effect at Sugarbush today...

 

[drjeff]

View attachment 25848

Bravo line today at 10:25 am. No Ikon effect at Sugarbush today...

Never took any Mount Snow "epic" line shots today, but Bluebird and Nitro we're basically 5-7 minutes tops, and most everything else was less than 10 chairs while my wife and I were out on all 4 faces from 8 until about 1.

I'll report on Okemo and their "Epic" lines tomorrow, as my "racer Dad" duties has me driving up route 100 from Mount Snow to Okemo tomorrow!

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[Quietman]

Crotched was quite busy today, but lots of day tickets, and no real lift lines.

 

[abc]

Just drove by Wildcat on my way to xc ski. Parking lot was about half full.

Lodging around North Conway is abundant.

I think people are too busy shopping this weekend!

 

[slatham]

This is not your typical crowded weekend. Lets see next weekend.....

 

[skiur]

The weekend before Xmas is always a slow one.

 

[cdskier]

View attachment 25848

Bravo line today at 10:25 am. No Ikon effect at Sugarbush today...

I'd say Saturday was less crowded than I expected (but I did see quite a few people with Ikon passes...and that's just the ones that had them visible instead of in a pocket). However I thought Sunday and today were more crowded than I expected.

 

[Orca]

There is the possibility that the super passes increase both demand and revenue. With such increases comes the possibility for new lifts and new terrain, likely by expansion of the larger and more viable ski areas as they strive to create a better product. This would be in sharp contrast to the net loss of terrain from the closings of smaller areas that has been the trend in the east for more than thirty years (ref http://www.nelsap.org). Think about this: the thirty years from 1960 to 1990 saw a massive expansion of terrain as the ski industry established itself. The thirty years from 1990 to 2020 has seen a significant reduction in terrain. The only way to reverse the current trend is to increase skier visits and revenue. If the super passes work well, they will do exactly that.

 

[FBGM]

There is the possibility that the super passes increase both demand and revenue. With such increases comes the possibility for new lifts and new terrain, likely by expansion of the larger and more viable ski areas as they strive to create a better product. This would be in sharp contrast to the net loss of terrain from the closings of smaller areas that has been the trend in the east for more than thirty years (ref http://www.nelsap.org). Think about this: the thirty years from 1960 to 1990 saw a massive expansion of terrain as the ski industry established itself. The thirty years from 1990 to 2020 has seen a significant reduction in terrain. The only way to reverse the current trend is to increase skier visits and revenue. If the super passes work well, they will do exactly that.

Your ramble did have some facts in there. But I don’t see anyone expanding or any new places popping up. Last ski resort built was what? Revel stoke? Like 15 year’s ago?

I think there are some areas where you could get away with building a new resort - Utah Wasatch area and Summit County Colorado - both have an exploding population near by with close to maxed out ski areas. Utah got Woodward, but they doesn’t count even tho it’s new. They are trying to build some other dumb one by mayflower but that’s just a loophole to make more hotels to crowd the existing areas.

End of the day it takes 2-5 year’s to fully build a resort from ground up. And $250m would be a starting budget for like 2,000 acre resort and infrastructure. Shit ain’t happenen

 

[Bosco DaSkia]

Your ramble did have some facts in there. But I don’t see anyone expanding or any new places popping up. Last ski resort built was what? Revel stoke? Like 15 year’s ago?

I think there are some areas where you could get away with building a new resort - Utah Wasatch area and Summit County Colorado - both have an exploding population near by with close to maxed out ski areas. Utah got Woodward, but they doesn’t count even tho it’s new. They are trying to build some other dumb one by mayflower but that’s just a loophole to make more hotels to crowd the existing areas.

End of the day it takes 2-5 year’s to fully build a resort from ground up. And $250m would be a starting budget for like 2,000 acre resort and infrastructure. Shit ain’t happenen

wut? open yer eyez to the world around ya

things that be happenen rights now....

east

hunter west
waterville green peak
black mountain glades
catamount trails and lodge
gore whole new pods
cockainge back from the ashes


west

arapahoe beavers lift pod
keystone bergman bowl pod
beaver creek mccoy park
timberline and summit ski areas linked on mt hood
great divide rawhide gulch
ski cooper tennessee creek basin lift and trails
cherry peak brand new
hankin-evelyn backcountry recreation area
cuchara mountain park

planned

nordic peak expansion
stagecoach ski resort proposal
wasatch peaks ranch private resort
big white backcountry project
grand targhee terrain expansion
balsams expansion still moving along


mayflower mountain resort https://liftblog.com/2019/08/13/mayflower-mountain-resort-eyes-2021-opening/


go peddle yer pessimistic views elsewhere sonny boy.....

 

[BenedictGomez]

There is the possibility that the super passes increase both demand and revenue.

Revenue yes, demand no.

The demand is relatively static to perhaps a relatively non-material increase. We already know this via NSAA data. It's more of a shift in buyer behaviour than a material increase in customers (e.g. new skiers/snowboarders).

Yes, the purveyors of EPIC & IKON are telling you (often) that they're saving skiing, increasing skier demand, and curing several currently incurable & inoperable diseases & cancers. Dont believe them.

 

[FBGM]

wut? open yer eyez to the world around ya

things that be happenen rights now....

east

hunter west
waterville green peak
black mountain glades
catamount trails and lodge
gore whole new pods
cockainge back from the ashes


west

arapahoe beavers lift pod
keystone bergman bowl pod
beaver creek mccoy park
timberline and summit ski areas linked on mt hood
great divide rawhide gulch
ski cooper tennessee creek basin lift and trails
cherry peak brand new
hankin-evelyn backcountry recreation area
cuchara mountain park

planned

nordic peak expansion
stagecoach ski resort proposal
wasatch peaks ranch private resort
big white backcountry project
grand targhee terrain expansion
balsams expansion still moving along


mayflower mountain resort https://liftblog.com/2019/08/13/mayflower-mountain-resort-eyes-2021-opening/


go peddle yer pessimistic views elsewhere sonny boy.....

Im taking new shit noob. All those you mentioned are adding on to existing stuff.

All the “new/proposed” stuff you mentioned is fairy tail land except for mayflower which is getting built and I explained above.

Nordic expansion is never happening. End of story. lol at skiing to Ogden. Yay maybe we can get a ski through temple - fucking Mormons
Wasatch peaks has about a 10% chance of happening. And if so, you have skis on snow at a new resort by 2025 earliest.
That Balsams is never happening. Ever.

Learn to read. And keep dreaming.

 

[Greg]

Lots of iMuscle in this thread. :lol:

 

[FBGM]

Lots of iMuscle in this thread. :lol:

I have the biggest

 

[skimagic]

wut? open yer eyez to the world around ya

things that be happenen rights now....

east

hunter west
waterville green peak
black mountain glades
catamount trails and lodge
gore whole new pods
cockainge back from the ashes


west

arapahoe beavers lift pod
keystone bergman bowl pod
beaver creek mccoy park
timberline and summit ski areas linked on mt hood
great divide rawhide gulch
ski cooper tennessee creek basin lift and trails
cherry peak brand new
hankin-evelyn backcountry recreation area
cuchara mountain

And there's a Sun Valley expansion next year and Wolf Creek has some good plans to extend off the backside.

This years notable expansions not mentioned above includes Copper Tucker mtn lift, Montana Snow bowl TV mountain lift, and restoration of Wildwood lift at Tamarack.

There is no real need to build brand new resort when there is plenty of terrain added by expansions. Expansions are "new areas" anyways- Revelstoke is an expanded area, not new.
Brand new areas last 15 yrs are Tamarack, Cherry Peak, and the former moonlight basin. And back east Tenney is an old new area.

There really is no room for a brand new resort in wasatch or summit county. All the good spots are taken or are in existing permit areas. Plus any developer would want private land for condos at the base which is hard to find.

And even if there was private land, the locals might be against idevelpment such as the Snodgrass Mountain ( a separate ski area really) expansion at Crested Butte that got killed .

 

[ss20]

Ski areas closed in the 80s and 90s like the plague spreading because of major increases in insurance premiums. Also, this is hypothetical but maybe someone born pre-1960 could answer this- I always thought it was due to too many changes in the industry.

What I mean is... if you're a small mountain in 1979, you have a few fixed-grip chairs, a base lodge, and snowmaking and grooming on a select handful of core trails. If you're a large mountain...you have the same set of infrastructure. Same skiing experience, larger scale.

Fast forward to 1994. Big mountains are adding detatchable chairs, slopeside hotels, real estate. 60-80% of terrain is expected to have snowmaking and grooming (now done by a true grooming "fleet" of advanced machines). The skiing experience at these major mountains is vastly different from the smaller hills, now not just in mountain size- but amenities, lifts, and skiing quality. Little mountains have to adapt extremely quick or die out...and that's what happened in the 80s. I would not say it was due to a change in demand.

 

[Orca]

...The skiing experience at these major mountains is vastly different from the smaller hills, now not just in mountain size- but amenities, lifts, and skiing quality. Little mountains have to adapt extremely quick or die out...and that's what happened in the 80s. I would not say it was due to a change in demand.

The smaller mountains either did not or could not adapt, and the demand for their product changed for the worse.

I'd agree that the ski landscape has changed, as it is changing now. I'm not pessimistic about the mega passes just yet. They might spur capital investment of the type that we skiers like.

 

[Orca]

I have the biggest

That's not what she said

 

[Smellytele]

Ski areas closed in the 80s and 90s like the plague spreading because of major increases in insurance premiums. Also, this is hypothetical but maybe someone born pre-1960 could answer this- I always thought it was due to too many changes in the industry.

What I mean is... if you're a small mountain in 1979, you have a few fixed-grip chairs, a base lodge, and snowmaking and grooming on a select handful of core trails. If you're a large mountain...you have the same set of infrastructure. Same skiing experience, larger scale.

Fast forward to 1994. Big mountains are adding detatchable chairs, slopeside hotels, real estate. 60-80% of terrain is expected to have snowmaking and grooming (now done by a true grooming "fleet" of advanced machines). The skiing experience at these major mountains is vastly different from the smaller hills, now not just in mountain size- but amenities, lifts, and skiing quality. Little mountains have to adapt extremely quick or die out...and that's what happened in the 80s. I would not say it was due to a change in demand.

It was really the late 70’s and 80’s that the ski areas were closing. NH had Tyrol, mittersill, and a bunch of small tow rope community areas. Maine had at least evergreen valley.


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