Heard that the price is back on the rise today :-?
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The Price of Gas
- Thread starter SilentCal
- Start date
I just paid 2.49..$60 to fill my suv. My van is $75 to fill it.thetrailboss said:
ctenidae
Active member
News from Bush's talks with the Saudis isn't terribly happy. Apparently (and I think the Saudis have been saying this for a while) they're pretty much maxed out on production. There are really only two solutions, find more or use less. Well, three, if you mix the two. Unfortunately, it's such a polarized argument. I think the "find more" camp has a self-fulfilling prophecy going- if we don't reduce consumption, prices will rise to the point exploration and production in hard-to-reach places will become economically viable. Me, I'm expecting the Russians to cave on their 51% ownership requirement and start letting foreign companies develop Siberia, probably within the next 5 years (probably not while Bush continues shooting his mouth off about Pooty-Poot, though)
riverc0il
New member
good points from ctenidae. my solution would be toss an additional thousand dollar tax on every new vehicle that gets less than 25MPG. use that tax to subsidize the national gas prices.
think about it: what made the prices shoot throught the roof? increased demand with a non-increasing supply. what caused the increased demand? people driving vehicles that get poor gas milage (higher population to a certain extent, but no one wants to control that, that's a whole nuther topic though...). deter people from buying vehicles that have high consumption of gas, and if people decide they really need the vehicle, they should help pay for driving up demand.
essentially, we are all paying the same right now for the decisions of the few. the few have decided to increase demand of gas by the vehicles they drive. yet everyone pays the same whether you but a car that gets 35 or 15 miles a gallon. obviously the person getting 15 miles a gallon is paying more to go the same distance, but that's their decision. tax the vehicles most responsible for driving demand through the roof. it's those people buying those vehicles that can clearly afford it any ways. look for gas to start taking a serious hit on the economy if prices keep going up. the price of just about everything is going to go up as transportation charges rise and between cost of goods increasing and gas prices increasing, people will buy less....
...unless they charge it. any one hear the latest stats on the number of people in debit beyond their ability to repay? uugh, crazy crazy world.
i just don't see looking for new sources of gas as an alternative here. it's going to run out eventually, so even if you do find new sources of fuel and oil... you still need to conserve now to plan for the future. i guess that sounds ironic coming from someone that drives 200-300 miles a weekend for amusement and pleasure, but at least i do it responsibly at 35mpg.
i'll get off my soap box and high horse now. flame away
think about it: what made the prices shoot throught the roof? increased demand with a non-increasing supply. what caused the increased demand? people driving vehicles that get poor gas milage (higher population to a certain extent, but no one wants to control that, that's a whole nuther topic though...). deter people from buying vehicles that have high consumption of gas, and if people decide they really need the vehicle, they should help pay for driving up demand.
essentially, we are all paying the same right now for the decisions of the few. the few have decided to increase demand of gas by the vehicles they drive. yet everyone pays the same whether you but a car that gets 35 or 15 miles a gallon. obviously the person getting 15 miles a gallon is paying more to go the same distance, but that's their decision. tax the vehicles most responsible for driving demand through the roof. it's those people buying those vehicles that can clearly afford it any ways. look for gas to start taking a serious hit on the economy if prices keep going up. the price of just about everything is going to go up as transportation charges rise and between cost of goods increasing and gas prices increasing, people will buy less....
...unless they charge it. any one hear the latest stats on the number of people in debit beyond their ability to repay? uugh, crazy crazy world.
i just don't see looking for new sources of gas as an alternative here. it's going to run out eventually, so even if you do find new sources of fuel and oil... you still need to conserve now to plan for the future. i guess that sounds ironic coming from someone that drives 200-300 miles a weekend for amusement and pleasure, but at least i do it responsibly at 35mpg.
i'll get off my soap box and high horse now. flame away
bigbog
Active member
I've driven Toyota Corollas religiously for ~18yrs and Hondas for over 7yrs....true I've driven a Jeep Cherokee for 4yrs and now a Honda and an Xterra, but I've done my fair share of conservation for 30yrs, and would definitely move to a new fuel source if someone would make it financially feasible....
loafer89
New member
I think that you are absolutly correct. The end of the easy oil age is approaching, and will probably occur by 2030. For every 1 new barrel of oil that we find in the world today, we consume 6, do the math and things get ugly when you consider that we have discovered 90% of the world's oil supply.
We are tied to petrochemicals for all aspects of daily life:
It takes 400 gallons of oil to feed each american for one year.
The average car consumes 20-25 barrels of oil energy during its construction.
The average computer consumes 10 times it's weight during construction.
Estimates are that there will be a 2% on average growth in oil demand worldwide in the next few years along with a (conservative) 3% decline in production from existing
reserves. This means that by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional 50 million barrels of oil a day.
There was a fasinating, if scary article in the National Geographic about the end of the age of easy oil. Bottom line, we need to start conserving NOW, but the world is used to a diet of oil that it cannot maintain.
We are tied to petrochemicals for all aspects of daily life:
It takes 400 gallons of oil to feed each american for one year.
The average car consumes 20-25 barrels of oil energy during its construction.
The average computer consumes 10 times it's weight during construction.
Estimates are that there will be a 2% on average growth in oil demand worldwide in the next few years along with a (conservative) 3% decline in production from existing
reserves. This means that by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional 50 million barrels of oil a day.
There was a fasinating, if scary article in the National Geographic about the end of the age of easy oil. Bottom line, we need to start conserving NOW, but the world is used to a diet of oil that it cannot maintain.
ctenidae
Active member
Careful with those stats loafer89. While the overall thought is right, those stats are easily picked apart. For instance, they rely on known reserves, currently accessible with today's technology and economic incentives. As demand keeps increasing, it becomes economicaly feasible to tap other oil sources. The Peak Oil gang, while overall correct (oil is in finite supply), have been wrong every time they've predicted an end to the oil supply, simply because they didn't account correctly for technological improvements and economic incentives. Doesn't mean we're never going to run out of oil (even the abiotic oil folks agree we're using it faster than it's being replaced), just that the high-consmption/low-conservation folks will point to Peak Oil's failures as an excuse to do nothing.
I would tend to agree, in theory, with rivercoil's idea- tax the gas guzzlers, add a tax incentive to efficient cars. You already get a $2000 tax credit on a hybrid. My younger brother just turned in his 20 mpg Maxima for a Prius. He figures he'll save $1900 a year on gas. Combined with the tax credit, the cost difference between the Prius and a comparable car is made up in less than 2 years. Bush is proposing expanding the tax credits to cover clean diesel and other high-efficiency vehicles, in one of the few policy initiatives I agree with. Next they need to start regulating the 18 wheelers, since they use the vast majority of oil, and their costs directly influence the cost of consumer goods.
Gas prices have such an effect on the price of everything else that, when adjusted for inflation, gas doesn't cost any more now than it did in the 50's. That will, unfortunately, continue to be true, as rising gas prices increases the cost of everything else. Companies are trying to avoid adding the cost to consumers, but they can't keep that up very long and stay in business. There is a crunch coming, and we're all going to feel it.
I would tend to agree, in theory, with rivercoil's idea- tax the gas guzzlers, add a tax incentive to efficient cars. You already get a $2000 tax credit on a hybrid. My younger brother just turned in his 20 mpg Maxima for a Prius. He figures he'll save $1900 a year on gas. Combined with the tax credit, the cost difference between the Prius and a comparable car is made up in less than 2 years. Bush is proposing expanding the tax credits to cover clean diesel and other high-efficiency vehicles, in one of the few policy initiatives I agree with. Next they need to start regulating the 18 wheelers, since they use the vast majority of oil, and their costs directly influence the cost of consumer goods.
Gas prices have such an effect on the price of everything else that, when adjusted for inflation, gas doesn't cost any more now than it did in the 50's. That will, unfortunately, continue to be true, as rising gas prices increases the cost of everything else. Companies are trying to avoid adding the cost to consumers, but they can't keep that up very long and stay in business. There is a crunch coming, and we're all going to feel it.
Cars need to use alternative fuel sources soon, the technology is available & even if hybrids are not a long term solution, they allow more time for technology to make fuel cells better.
If you have a concern that your big car won't climb hills as well, I'd rather take my chance in the car & then on Hybrid or alternative fuel airplanes until the science is fool-proof. I can pull over in the car....
What is the answer for flight????? :roll:
If you have a concern that your big car won't climb hills as well, I'd rather take my chance in the car & then on Hybrid or alternative fuel airplanes until the science is fool-proof. I can pull over in the car....
What is the answer for flight????? :roll:
Stephen
New member
I'm trying to convinve my wife to let me get a motorcycle. Better gas mileage.
-Stephen
-Stephen
BeanoNYC
Active member
Stephen said:I'm trying to convinve my wife to let me get a motorcycle. Better gas mileage.
-Stephen
You can always get a Vespa then! :lol:
loafer89
New member
I think that the facts that I posted are fairly accurate and the end of easy oil is going to happen in my lifetime. I personally am very opposed to drilling in ANWR as the reserves that are predicted to be there are dubious at best, and the enviornmental damage has the possibility to be severe is an accident/spill should occur.
While I understand the politics involved in keeping oil flowing to the Alaska Pipeline now that the north slope is running dry, the enviornmental risk is not worth it IMO.
Conservation and alternative energy sources like hydrogen/propane exist for motor vehicles, but they have been very slow to make it into the main stream market.
There are folks where I live that have 4 or more cars (daily driven) for only two people. The attitude among most folks here is that they are willing to pay double or triple the amount of money to fill up there cars, and that oil is a renuable energy source????
My facts came from: lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
While I understand the politics involved in keeping oil flowing to the Alaska Pipeline now that the north slope is running dry, the enviornmental risk is not worth it IMO.
Conservation and alternative energy sources like hydrogen/propane exist for motor vehicles, but they have been very slow to make it into the main stream market.
There are folks where I live that have 4 or more cars (daily driven) for only two people. The attitude among most folks here is that they are willing to pay double or triple the amount of money to fill up there cars, and that oil is a renuable energy source????
My facts came from: lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
Stephen
New member
loafer89 said:
So, I HAVE to ask... do 2 people driving 4 cars use more oil & gas than 2 people driving 2 cars. It'd be a neat trick to see.
-Stephen
loafer89
New member
The neighbor owns a Hummer, Porsche, Jeep Grand Jerokee, and a Jaguar, for two people in the household, I think that is a bit excessive.
I worry about the fuel sources that will be available for my son when he is my age, especially when people waste fuel just to show off wealth or status.
I worry about the fuel sources that will be available for my son when he is my age, especially when people waste fuel just to show off wealth or status.
ctenidae
Active member
If he has a Hummer, why have a Jeep, too? So you have something to pull the Hummer out when it gets stuck?
Really, having a surplus of cars does, in the end, result in higher gas and oil useage, if you add in the resources used to produce those cars. And, since the Porsche and Jag probably cost more than the Jeep and Hummer, they also contibuted to the trade deficit. This guy's just six kinds of socially irresponsible.
loafer- just to be clear, I wasn't doubting the accuracy of your stats- they sound about right to me. Just giving you the heads up on their weaknesses, in case you need them in a fight.
Really, having a surplus of cars does, in the end, result in higher gas and oil useage, if you add in the resources used to produce those cars. And, since the Porsche and Jag probably cost more than the Jeep and Hummer, they also contibuted to the trade deficit. This guy's just six kinds of socially irresponsible.
loafer- just to be clear, I wasn't doubting the accuracy of your stats- they sound about right to me. Just giving you the heads up on their weaknesses, in case you need them in a fight.
loafer89
New member
I agree, and it's a little frustrating to see someone with so many different kinds of vehicles, for what purpose? What's more is out of those four, the Hummer is one of the DAILY driven vehicles used most often :roll:
I have nothing against suvs, I wanted to purchase the Kia Sorento, but 15mpg is kind of on the low side so I decided to stick with my Escort wagon a while longer. The hybrid suv from Ford looks interesting, if a little $$$$.
I hear you regarding my figures about the global oil supply, I just found the statistics interesting, so I posted them. I agree that there are probably other ways to get more oil out of our planet, but they may not be easy or enviornmentally sound.
I have nothing against suvs, I wanted to purchase the Kia Sorento, but 15mpg is kind of on the low side so I decided to stick with my Escort wagon a while longer. The hybrid suv from Ford looks interesting, if a little $$$$.
I hear you regarding my figures about the global oil supply, I just found the statistics interesting, so I posted them. I agree that there are probably other ways to get more oil out of our planet, but they may not be easy or enviornmentally sound.
Vortex
Member
I drive a Suv in the winter to ski and in the summer to go camping and pull my camper. I drive a small car in the summer to commute to save a penny. I took my ski racks of my suv last week.... Went from 17 to 21 MPG pretty quick. Left them off for this weekend. Thats like 60 miles per tank wow. :idea:
P
Peter the great
Guest
I know how to make gas cheaper.... :idea:
the way to make gas cheaper is to get bush out of office cause hes a moron. gas wold go down probly past a dollar. doo wha?? :blink: yeah imagine that.... not attacking that arab nations is a good Idea!
wow..... never thought.
the way to make gas cheaper is to get bush out of office cause hes a moron. gas wold go down probly past a dollar. doo wha?? :blink: yeah imagine that.... not attacking that arab nations is a good Idea!
wow..... never thought.
MtnMagic
New member
Up here in the North Country, gas prices continue to fall. Today's prices in two stations have dropped to $2.13 a gallon, down from $2.14 yesterday and from a high of $2.19 a week ago. Usually gas prices are $.10 less a gallon in Concord, NH.
Looking forward to hiking several times a week again this year. How about an AZ outing in the Whites? Interested?!
Looking forward to hiking several times a week again this year. How about an AZ outing in the Whites? Interested?!
bigbog
Active member
:lol: , Yeah...there's nothin' like pummeling (or inviting outsiders to pummel) one of Saudi Arabia's rivals to stabilize those crude prices... :lol: :roll:
a SMART idea.....
I wish I could export this to the States. I most likely could, but it would be cheaper to by a Chevy Aveo here and the Aveo is like a Lincoln in comparison to the Smart.
The car below is a Smart car. It is sold by Mercedes Benz sort of like BMW / Mini. I saw this one in the Wal-Mart parking lot in Sherbrooke this weekend. I think it is about 8 feet long (it is about the length of a motorcycle), seats 2, engine is in the rear and gets about 70mpg,(it is a small 2 or 3 cylinder direct injected diesel.)
The body panels are plastic, like a Saturn, but with a Smart car if you get bored with the color you just go to your MB / Smart facility and buy new ones and take the old ones off and put new ones on. This Smart had a fabric roof that slides back, like the old VW Bugs had. I think the price for this car is about $12,000 USD.
I wish I could export this to the States. I most likely could, but it would be cheaper to by a Chevy Aveo here and the Aveo is like a Lincoln in comparison to the Smart.
The car below is a Smart car. It is sold by Mercedes Benz sort of like BMW / Mini. I saw this one in the Wal-Mart parking lot in Sherbrooke this weekend. I think it is about 8 feet long (it is about the length of a motorcycle), seats 2, engine is in the rear and gets about 70mpg,(it is a small 2 or 3 cylinder direct injected diesel.)
The body panels are plastic, like a Saturn, but with a Smart car if you get bored with the color you just go to your MB / Smart facility and buy new ones and take the old ones off and put new ones on. This Smart had a fabric roof that slides back, like the old VW Bugs had. I think the price for this car is about $12,000 USD.
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