Trail Poaching

[sledhaulingmedic]

It's not allowed anywhere, really.

If you poach, take responsability for your actions. Don't poach alone, know where you are, have a plan for when things go wrong.

 

[salida]

Saw some people getting their tickets cut for poaching agony at sunday river today...

PS they did not cut a rope and entered via an open trail, oh yeah there was about 24 inches of coverage, and the trail could have been opened easily...

 

[riverc0il]

fwiw, i was on a closed trail when i broke my arm. we hiked above the ropes, so we technically didn't duck any ropes but the trails were by no means open. was smart about it thou, group of three, knew the conditions were good enough to get down safely, etc. equipment failure caused the crash, but just fair warning that if you do something stupid be prepared to face the consequences. my situation could of been a whole lot worse had i not been to extract myself from the problem. regardless, if a taril is not open, you are poaching and be prepared to face the consequences. that was actually one of the first things i told patrol when they wre looking at my arm. i was straight with them that i was on a closed trail and prepared to face any long term consequences for my actions.

 

[RustyK]

Got scolded at the "K" on Friday for poaching Downdraft. Told him I came out of the woods and did not know the trail was closed.
He said I was the 5th person to say that.

 

[teqeeler]

Re: The trails closed for a reason

Ducking ropes is wrong. Period. The trail is closed for a reason (even if it's a stupid reason) and closed trails aren't patrolled so if you get hurt and can't get someone to notice you, you're in a world of sh!t. I've ducked a rope twice in my 25+ years skiing (Jerico at Jiminey and I forget the other one). Of course I don't really have a problem skiing in the woods even if said woods aren't marked glades which I guess is close to rope ducking but I believe if it's not roped off and skiable, then ski it at your own risk just don't go suing the mountain if you get banged up.

yet u did it twice..... i don't think ducking ropes is wrong, no different then hiking up the mountian after it has closed at the end of the season and taking turns. is it wise and safe?,not especially, but i dont agree that it is wrong.

 

[GrizzlyFD]

Re: The trails closed for a reason

Ducking ropes is wrong. Period. The trail is closed for a reason (even if it's a stupid reason) and closed trails aren't patrolled so if you get hurt and can't get someone to notice you, you're in a world of sh!t. I've ducked a rope twice in my 25+ years skiing (Jerico at Jiminey and I forget the other one). Of course I don't really have a problem skiing in the woods even if said woods aren't marked glades which I guess is close to rope ducking but I believe if it's not roped off and skiable, then ski it at your own risk just don't go suing the mountain if you get banged up.

yet u did it twice..... i don't think ducking ropes is wrong, no different then hiking up the mountian after it has closed at the end of the season and taking turns. is it wise and safe?,not especially, but i dont agree that it is wrong.

They are totally different. The trails that are closed after the mountain has shut down are because the LIFTS are not running, hence the ski area is closed. The trails that are closed during the ski season when the lifts are running are usually closed for SAFETY reasons...

 

[RustyK]

Re: The trails closed for a reason

Ducking ropes is wrong. Period. The trail is closed for a reason (even if it's a stupid reason) and closed trails aren't patrolled so if you get hurt and can't get someone to notice you, you're in a world of sh!t. I've ducked a rope twice in my 25+ years skiing (Jerico at Jiminey and I forget the other one). Of course I don't really have a problem skiing in the woods even if said woods aren't marked glades which I guess is close to rope ducking but I believe if it's not roped off and skiable, then ski it at your own risk just don't go suing the mountain if you get banged up.

yet u did it twice..... i don't think ducking ropes is wrong, no different then hiking up the mountian after it has closed at the end of the season and taking turns. is it wise and safe?,not especially, but i dont agree that it is wrong.

They are totally different. The trails that are closed after the mountain has shut down are because the LIFTS are not running, hence the ski area is closed. The trails that are closed during the ski season when the lifts are running are usually closed for SAFETY reasons...

There is a sign at the Sugarbush Castlerock chair.

"Only YOU know if the trail is open or closed".

They do not rope off trails in this area because they are depending on your good alpine judgement.
What a concept.
There are no ropes in Europe because it's too big and you have to use judgement.
We are way too paranoid about lawyers out here.

 

[GadgetRick]

Getting into this thread a little late. Don't have time to read ALL of the posts so forgive me if I'm repeating anything someone else said.

Being a patroller I can tell you ducking the ropes is plain WRONG. The trail has not been opened/closed for a reason. On the mountain I patrol we (as patrollers) are instructed to look at a trail as an expert skier would look at a trail. If an expert can get down then open the trail. Of course, it's a little different if it's not an expert trail but most people want to poach the expert trails.

As has been explained, if you get hurt on a closed trail we--the ski patrol--have to come and get you. So not only have you put yourself in danger but you've now put others at risk for injury. I can tell you we patrollers do NOT appreciate this. I'm not patrolling to save some dummy who decided to ski where they aren't supposed to. I have had to help on getting someone out of the woods one time. Plenty of snow there but it wasn't a trail. Some idiot felt they wanted to ski some trees (again, it wasn't a trail) and hit one of them. We had to go in and get him. Problem is, when you're sinking down to above your knees it's quite easy to twist a knee and it isn't so easy to get someone out and then get yourself out. Luckily, this wasn't on a steeper part of the mountain.

Areas which are not a marked trail are closed for a reason, too. With a foot of snow on it any obstacles are covered (logs, stumps, rocks, etc.). You may find yourself hitting one of these things and eating a tree. No matter how good you are you don't have x-ray vision and can't see what's under the snow.

So, if you have the choice on whether to duck a rope/ski an unmarked trail (on a ski mountain), don't do it. You're not only risking yourself but others as well.

And just because you hike up (on a ski mountain, not in the back country) does NOT mean you're ok to do it. You are still on property which is owned by someone else and their rules are, buy a lift ticket and you can ski on my mountain. Hiking up and skiing down does not absolve you from following the rules/laws of the mountain and the state which the mountain is in.

It's just wrong no matter how you look at it.

 

[thetrailboss]

Getting into this thread a little late. Don't have time to read ALL of the posts so forgive me if I'm repeating anything someone else said.

Being a patroller I can tell you ducking the ropes is plain WRONG. The trail has not been opened/closed for a reason. On the mountain I patrol we (as patrollers) are instructed to look at a trail as an expert skier would look at a trail. If an expert can get down then open the trail. Of course, it's a little different if it's not an expert trail but most people want to poach the expert trails.

As has been explained, if you get hurt on a closed trail we--the ski patrol--have to come and get you. So not only have you put yourself in danger but you've now put others at risk for injury. I can tell you we patrollers do NOT appreciate this. I'm not patrolling to save some dummy who decided to ski where they aren't supposed to. I have had to help on getting someone out of the woods one time. Plenty of snow there but it wasn't a trail. Some idiot felt they wanted to ski some trees (again, it wasn't a trail) and hit one of them. We had to go in and get him. Problem is, when you're sinking down to above your knees it's quite easy to twist a knee and it isn't so easy to get someone out and then get yourself out. Luckily, this wasn't on a steeper part of the mountain.

Areas which are not a marked trail are closed for a reason, too. With a foot of snow on it any obstacles are covered (logs, stumps, rocks, etc.). You may find yourself hitting one of these things and eating a tree. No matter how good you are you don't have x-ray vision and can't see what's under the snow.

So, if you have the choice on whether to duck a rope/ski an unmarked trail (on a ski mountain), don't do it. You're not only risking yourself but others as well.

And just because you hike up (on a ski mountain, not in the back country) does NOT mean you're ok to do it. You are still on property which is owned by someone else and their rules are, buy a lift ticket and you can ski on my mountain. Hiking up and skiing down does not absolve you from following the rules/laws of the mountain and the state which the mountain is in.

It's just wrong no matter how you look at it.

Excellent post. :beer: Well said and glad to get this POV in here. This is what makes AZ great...different POV's and experiences.

 

[skibum1321]

Getting into this thread a little late. Don't have time to read ALL of the posts so forgive me if I'm repeating anything someone else said.

Being a patroller I can tell you ducking the ropes is plain WRONG. The trail has not been opened/closed for a reason. On the mountain I patrol we (as patrollers) are instructed to look at a trail as an expert skier would look at a trail. If an expert can get down then open the trail. Of course, it's a little different if it's not an expert trail but most people want to poach the expert trails.

As has been explained, if you get hurt on a closed trail we--the ski patrol--have to come and get you. So not only have you put yourself in danger but you've now put others at risk for injury. I can tell you we patrollers do NOT appreciate this. I'm not patrolling to save some dummy who decided to ski where they aren't supposed to. I have had to help on getting someone out of the woods one time. Plenty of snow there but it wasn't a trail. Some idiot felt they wanted to ski some trees (again, it wasn't a trail) and hit one of them. We had to go in and get him. Problem is, when you're sinking down to above your knees it's quite easy to twist a knee and it isn't so easy to get someone out and then get yourself out. Luckily, this wasn't on a steeper part of the mountain.

Areas which are not a marked trail are closed for a reason, too. With a foot of snow on it any obstacles are covered (logs, stumps, rocks, etc.). You may find yourself hitting one of these things and eating a tree. No matter how good you are you don't have x-ray vision and can't see what's under the snow.

So, if you have the choice on whether to duck a rope/ski an unmarked trail (on a ski mountain), don't do it. You're not only risking yourself but others as well.

And just because you hike up (on a ski mountain, not in the back country) does NOT mean you're ok to do it. You are still on property which is owned by someone else and their rules are, buy a lift ticket and you can ski on my mountain. Hiking up and skiing down does not absolve you from following the rules/laws of the mountain and the state which the mountain is in.

It's just wrong no matter how you look at it.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I understand where you are coming from with not skiing closed trails, but just because something isn't a marked trail does not mean it isn't skiable. Let's look at the Bush for example - Slidebrook isn't marked, the Exterminator woods were never marked until last year, the Church isn't marked. And, btw, I have seen patrollers at the Church so don't try and preach to me from some high and mighty platform. I could go on, but I think (or hope) you see my point. Not everything is or should be marked.

 

[loafer89]

I have been skiing since 1982 and I have NEVER ducked under a rope in that time, that being said it was very annoying to see so many people skiing on closed trails at Killington last weekend. It makes you wonder just how vigilant the ski patrol is being at Killington since the accident that they had three weeks ago.

People were skiing Outer Limits in full view of anyone that cared to look up the mountain despite a rope across the whole trail. The powder looked inviting, but there must have been a good reason for the trail to be closed.

The ski patrol opens and closes trails for our safety and we should respect their decisions.

 

[JimG.]

And, btw, I have seen patrollers at the Church so don't try and preach to me from some high and mighty platform.

This is the part that gets me...OK, go ahead and close a trail, but don't then make it a private playground for patrollers only and then yell at others who decide to join the fun. Classic "do as I say, not as I do" stuff.

If I see a bunch of folks skiing a "closed" run, I don't care if they're only patrollers, I'm going to want to ski that run too.

 

[loafer89]

And, btw, I have seen patrollers at the Church so don't try and preach to me from some high and mighty platform.

If I see a bunch of folks skiing a "closed" run, I don't care if they're only patrollers, I'm going to want to ski that run too.

That was what was anoying for me at Killington, there was powder galore on the closed trails, but I respect the closed trail ropes, so I was not going to break the law and risk losing my pass as well.

 

[dmc]

That was what was anoying for me at Killington, there was powder galore on the closed trails, but I respect the closed trail ropes, so I was not going to break the law and risk losing my pass as well.

Your choice... Me - I'll poach if I can get a good visual and maybe some first hand accounts...

From what I heard OL was awesome! Just not THAT deep - so anybody who needs a little more edge to control speed then someone who rips would tag rocks..

We've been poaching lines all season.. You just can't lay a hard edge...

 

[salida]

We've been poaching lines all season.. You just can't lay a hard edge...

ski softly and carry a big stick

 

[dmc]

We've been poaching lines all season.. You just can't lay a hard edge...

ski softly and carry a big stick

Yup - stay on top of the snow... If you do find yourself in rocks don't try and control your speed - just try and get out of the rocks...

And remember.... Grass don't grow on rocks... Weeds can be your friends...

 

[loafer89]

Yes it is my choice to stay away from closed trails, which I do since money does not grow on trees, and I don't want to risk my pass or my body.

 

[dmc]

Yes it is my choice to stay away from closed trails, which I do since money does not grow on trees, and I don't want to risk my pass or my body.

Cool...

If I thought for a second I'd lose my pass or get hurt cause I couldn't handle the terrain - I wouldn't do it either...

 

[skibum1321]

And, btw, I have seen patrollers at the Church so don't try and preach to me from some high and mighty platform.

This is the part that gets me...OK, go ahead and close a trail, but don't then make it a private playground for patrollers only and then yell at others who decide to join the fun. Classic "do as I say, not as I do" stuff.

If I see a bunch of folks skiing a "closed" run, I don't care if they're only patrollers, I'm going to want to ski that run too.

The part that really gets me is saying that you shouldn't ski anything off the map. Just because it isn't on the map doesn't mean it shouldn't be skied. That's the point I was trying to make with the Church.

 

[loafer89]

I did not say that I could not handle the terrain, I just respect the decisions of the management of the mountain to close a trail. :-?