VAIL SUCKS

[drjeff]

F@%k...

Why would this guy want to move from Heavenly 3000 Miles across the country to a ski area that is open for 3-4 months a year. He literally has no experience running a mountain.

Where did you see this?

As I understand it, here is why at times Vail will look to Food and Beverage managers as possible promotable to GM roles, candidates,

#1, for the most part, the F&B managers that they have promoted to GM roles, have come from their larger mountains, where there F&B job had them overseeing plenty of staff in numerous facilities and types ranging from full sit down restaurants to cafeteria style facilities to walk up/take out style facilities to bar facilities. That alone has them of the mindset where they are used to multi tasking as well as chaos and how to improvise on short notice when something unexpected does happen. They have budgets they have to work with and within as well. Much of these skillsets and qualities they have, and have demonstrated in the F&B roles are skill sets and qualities that a GM of s ski area has to have as well.

Secondly, at a ski area, most of the time the GM is relying on the various advice and knowledge base that their department managers have and provide them. Heck, if you have a GM who has a backgorund in mountain ops, they may not know nearly as much about resort lodging or ski school operations as they do about snowmaking and groomng, and then they rely on what their various department managers are telling them to piece it all together. And a GM also simply can't do everything at a resort as well as some of their various staff members can, to a degree they HAVE to rely on their staff and especially department managers to provide the needed leadership to their staff to make it all happen

I know that my friend, who was head of F&B at Mount Snow the last few seasons was promted by Vail this past Fall to be the GM at their Mount Brighton resort out in Michigan. and apparently is doing well out there. As he decsribed it to me, before he headed West with his family it's all about the ability to work with people and manage the things you can plan for, as well as try and be ready for when something you aren't expecting happens, which is a skill set that a head of a larger F&B operation is used to.

It's not as much of a reach, if you think about it, as it may seem on the surface, especially if you have a good leader in the position as well as the overall company backing that leader up and giving them the proper support they need. That last part certainly has been an issue for some of the new GM's at some of the Vail properties these past few seasons

 

[Smellytele]

But there’s one thing we can all agree on: VAIL STILL SUCKS!

All but killwhat the vail minion.

 

[Smellytele]

As I understand it, here is why at times Vail will look to Food and Beverage managers as possible promotable to GM roles, candidates,

#1, for the most part, the F&B managers that they have promoted to GM roles, have come from their larger mountains, where there F&B job had them overseeing plenty of staff in numerous facilities and types ranging from full sit down restaurants to cafeteria style facilities to walk up/take out style facilities to bar facilities. That alone has them of the mindset where they are used to multi tasking as well as chaos and how to improvise on short notice when something unexpected does happen. They have budgets they have to work with and within as well. Much of these skillsets and qualities they have, and have demonstrated in the F&B roles are skill sets and qualities that a GM of s ski area has to have as well.

Secondly, at a ski area, most of the time the GM is relying on the various advice and knowledge base that their department managers have and provide them. Heck, if you have a GM who has a backgorund in mountain ops, they may not know nearly as much about resort lodging or ski school operations as they do about snowmaking and groomng, and then they rely on what their various department managers are telling them to piece it all together. And a GM also simply can't do everything at a resort as well as some of their various staff members can, to a degree they HAVE to rely on their staff and especially department managers to provide the needed leadership to their staff to make it all happen

I know that my friend, who was head of F&B at Mount Snow the last few seasons was promted by Vail this past Fall to be the GM at their Mount Brighton resort out in Michigan. and apparently is doing well out there. As he decsribed it to me, before he headed West with his family it's all about the ability to work with people and manage the things you can plan for, as well as try and be ready for when something you aren't expecting happens, which is a skill set that a head of a larger F&B operation is used to.

It's not as much of a reach, if you think about it, as it may seem on the surface, especially if you have a good leader in the position as well as the overall company backing that leader up and giving them the proper support they need. That last part certainly has been an issue for some of the new GM's at some of the Vail properties these past few seasons

So what is the 1st and most important thing a SKI AREA must provide?
Answer: a good skiing product. With out that who gives a shit about anything else.

 

[Andrew B.]

With out that who gives a shit about anything else.

They are out there but they are not serious enough about skiing to post here.

Once a year families come to mind, an important demographic to many resorts bottom line.
Dad cares more about the beer selection, Mom cares more about the spa and the kids only care about chicken fingers, warm cookies and the heated outdoor pool. They get their 5 runs in on what ever is open and then off to whatever.

 

[drjeff]

So what is the 1st and most important thing a SKI AREA must provide?
Answer: a good skiing product. With out that who gives a shit about anything else.

Agree.

Also, how many "good" GM's came up through the operations ranks vs some non operations ranks? The answer by no means is 100%

The ability to effectively manage people isn't always a skillset that can be acquired as easily as say the ability to learn when and where to make snow and how may groomers to send out on the hill.

The vast majority of people who have their career in the ski industry are underneath it all skiers or riders, so whether their job at the resort is in lodging, or ski school, or marketing/events or group sales, or mountain ops, etc they all do understand what a "good" product is. The ability to be a good leader isn't something that comes as easily to everyone, and having a good leader is an important thing across all facets of the ski industry, from the consumer to the employee

 

[slatham]

GM = General Manager. Management skills are not dependent on the department one is running. If you look at any industry, many Presidents/COO/CEO's are not directly from the "core" business.

Further, at many resorts, the non-mountain ops departments are larger/more complex than mountain ops.

And of course, if the mountain has a top notch mountain ops person, why would you bring in a GM with the same skill set?

 

[Edd]

And of course, if the mountain has a top notch mountain ops person, why would you bring in a GM with the same skill set?

Not all ski areas have a top notch mountain ops person, and those people don't grow on trees. It is good if a GM knows damn well how operations should be running. Those GMs do exist.

 

[drjeff]

Not all ski areas have a top notch mountain ops person, and those people don't grow on trees. It is good if a GM knows damn well how operations should be running. Those GMs do exist.

Take for example 2 GM's who people seem to regard as "GOOD" GM's. Steve Wright at Jay Peak and Brian Heon at Sunday River.

Steve's background in the industry is in the marketing side of the business, from way back in the ASC days and even at Jay prior to him taking over as GM during the EB5 scenario.

Brian is a Ops guy, also started with ASC (he was early in his career when ASC bought the Canyons was was involved with the early on major lift installation projects at the Canyons before they went under and he went to Peak and now on to Boyne).

The common thread is they both have GOOD managerial skill sets, even if their initial entry into the ski industry was in very different departments

 

[gittist]

F@%k...

Why would this guy want to move from Heavenly 3000 Miles across the country to a ski area that is open for 3-4 months a year. He literally has no experience running a mountain.

Where did you see this?

Suhadolc Named GM of Mount Snow, McDowell to Lead Roundtop

SAM Magazine—Broomfield, Colo., March 16, 2022—Vail Resorts has named new general managers to two of its northeastern resorts: Brian Suhadolc will take the

www.saminfo.com

 

[jimmywilson69]

I see he's a local originally. that's good and I can buy into what other's are saying that the general manager doesn't need to be an expert in all mountain operations. He better be good at listening to his department mangers. Fortunately for Roundtop our mountain manager isn't going anywhere and knows how to run the place!

 

[chuckstah]

I finally ventured to Wildcat yesterday. While the lack of any attention to, well, the entire ski ops were painfully obvious, it was a fun morning. It was basically polecat, catapult, and lynx ttb, with a handful of side optio Better than expected.

 

[RichT]

Will the lower or even the mid, east resorts make it till next weekend? Hunter could push with only the "mainline" (Hellgate) being open. Was pouring there a little while ago, bit more coming.

 

[chuckstah]

Will the lower or even the mid, east resorts make it till next weekend? Hunter could push with only the "mainline" (Hellgate) being open. Was pouring there a little while ago, bit more coming.

In NH Crotched is going til next weekend. Definitely limited terrain, certainly enough snow to run the valley lift for the race trail, a flattened park trail and maybe a couple more. The summit will be thin.
I was at Sunapee Friday. The summit trails are weak, but there's tons of snow on the north peak pod. They can go for a while with the triple if they so choose. I'm fairly certain they'll piece together a handful of summit runs as well. It's going to be weak, but open.
Wildcat was on life support Thursday, but there's plenty to go for a while on Bobcat with the namesake chair, and Polecat and Catapult to mid Wildcat from the summit are probably not quite done yet.

 

[snoseek]

Just took a look on the crotched website. Is it true that they're at 25 inches for the season or is that a miscalculation?

 

[deadheadskier]

Just took a look on the crotched website. Is it true that they're at 25 inches for the season or is that a miscalculation?

Open snow is reporting 32" for the season. It's been bad for sure. Heck even Saddleback is only claiming 138.

 

[machski]

Just took a look on the crotched website. Is it true that they're at 25 inches for the season or is that a miscalculation?

But according to their snow report, Crotched is Packed Powder. Oh wait, they haven't udated snow conditions on their condition report since the end of February. And Vail wonders why people hate them.

 

[deadheadskier]

Of all the things Vail has sucked at since entering the Eastern market, their snow reports are the most puzzling. How difficult is it to spend five minutes each morning updating the snow report so it's accurate and informative?? Couldn't even the GM manage it? It reflects poorly on him / her to still have a report dated from almost a month ago.

 

[urungus]

I went to Crotched on Thursday and the clocks in both the Rocket and West bottom terminals had not been sprung forward, 4 days after start of daylight savings. Wonder what else they are failing to keep an eye on.

Was surprised at how empty it was. Also love the outer space theme, but who came up with the name “Crotched Rocket” LOL

 

[ThatGuy]

Running resorts at a normal schedule…nah
Blowing snow any time possible…nah
Treating employees well…nah
Keeping individual mountain culture…nah
Night skiing…nah
Snow reports…nah
Renaming lifts after fast bikes…

 

[thebigo]

As much as a I hate vail for what they have done to NH, sunapee is putting on a great event today. No COVID BS, no hassling the massive tailgate just 325 very happy kids.