VAIL SUCKS

[zyk]

I'd like to hear a yield management officer's explanation on early season day ticket pricing. I get the strategy for regular season to try and force people into passes. I do not get the disappearance of any semblance of early season deals on day tickets.

Take Bretton Woods as an example. Only place open in NH currently . For me to take my 8 year old there tomorrow, it's a 2:15 drive to spend $124 to ski one beginner trail. Granted, it's a pretty long and wide trail to spread people out. But still, $124 for an adult and child to ski Range View only? I can't justify it. It seems like a rip off.

Now if that same product was available for $90, I'd go. And I'd probably also spend the additional $34 in the cafeteria. Maybe I'd buy my son a T Shirt or hat too as he's never been there.

So, what's the math? Show me the estimated numbers . How many customers like me are they missing out on because they reject their value proposition vs those still willing to spend $124 for Range View?

What is also the lost opportunity cost for attracting potential 2025 season pass purchases because people refuse to check the place out because of the price? That's really what I look at early season efforts at ski areas to be designed for. Basically product advertisement. Because those same people who refuse $124 early season are certainly likely to also not jump at mid season rates of $200+ for an adult and child. So why not try and rope these folks in by offering a fair value in November?

Regarding lost opportunity I agree. Could also offer a special for non pass holders one a specific day. Although that could result in serious crowds.

Always stop at ski areas when we travel in the spring and fall. Have hiked some. Cannon, Wildcat, Smugglers Notch, etc. Look at maps. Gives a great perspective.

 

[oldfartrider]

This might be the first time ever that I wish I had Epic. They're definitely winning the Vermont battle for early season. Not worth driving to Sugarbush for Gatehouse and definitely not doing the Killington shit show, but I'd definitely be up for Okemo or Stowe's offerings right now.

Also...LMFAO at Okemo for charging $103 for a day ticket on a Tuesday in November for one trail. I was actually prepared to buy a day ticket for 60-70 but fuck them.

Bretton Woods has a cheap day ticket this weekend. But one trail there also I believe.

 

[machski]

What's attracted more negative PR this week? Okemo charging $124 for a single trail at opening, or the viral video from Mammoth showing all of California skiing down to Broadway?

Mammoth did that to themselves by running Broadway, Unbound and Stage 1 of the gondi, all serving Broadway trail. That is a ton of uphill capacity for one normal trail down (I believe Unbound was open as well but it's a park trail).

 

[BenedictGomez]

So, what's the math? Show me the estimated numbers . How many customers like me are they missing out on because they reject their value proposition vs those still willing to spend $124 for Range View?

Everything you said is correct; so what I think for most places what likely comes down to is PR optics.

How do you charge eleventy-billion dollars for a day lift ticket for 98% of the season, but say we can charge a tiny sum for pre-season. It somewhat unravels your fraudulent justification for claiming tickets need to be so expensive in the first place. Remember, nobody is openly & honestly claiming "we actually dont have to charge 1 year's college tuition for a lift ticket, we just do that to force you to buy an entire season pass" - even though we all know that's what the game is. I'm not saying this is a good reason or even necessarily fully logical, but it's my best guess as to why "preseason ski deals" are so rare now. They didnt used to be.

 

[deadheadskier]

I don't expect the days of Killington twofer $60 or Sunday River $39 early season tickets to come back, but how about something at least a little bit reasonable?

I started last year this very same weekend at Loon. Cost me right around $100 for my son and I. Before they pulled the plug on this weekend due to weather, the rate would have been $144 for the two of us.

 

[thetrailboss]

Everything you said is correct; so what I think for most places what likely comes down to is PR optics.

How do you charge eleventy-billion dollars for a day lift ticket for 98% of the season, but say we can charge a tiny sum for pre-season. It somewhat unravels your fraudulent justification for claiming tickets need to be so expensive in the first place. Remember, nobody is openly & honestly claiming "we actually dont have to charge 1 year's college tuition for a lift ticket, we just do that to force you to buy an entire season pass" - even though we all know that's what the game is. I'm not saying this is a good reason or even necessarily fully logical, but it's my best guess as to why "preseason ski deals" are so rare now. They didnt used to be.

Exactly.

Plus demand is higher in early season. Ironically when conditions are usually subpar.

 

[zyk]

Exactly.

Plus demand is higher in early season. Ironically when conditions are usually subpar.

Agree. My season usually ramps up in march. Early season is training for the rest of the year.

 

[abc]

Plus demand is higher in early season. Ironically when conditions are usually subpar.

I think that being the reason.

Anyone who’s desperate to ski a WROD in November will gladly fork over $100+ to do it. That is, if they haven’t bought a pass to ski “for free”.

If you think about it, how dare they pack the trail with sub-$100 day tickets when the season pass holders can barely turn, making the WROD doubly scary?

 

[drjeff]

No issues with the high opening days walk up rates. It's now a pass market for most. I was at Okemo today, with the WROD, and how many passes Epic sells, they really from a safety point, didn't need a bunch of walk up folks on the hill.

This topic will be debated ad naseum on this thread, especially by those who don't have a pass that works at an early season player...

 

[thetrailboss]

If you think about it, how dare they pack the trail with sub-$100 day tickets when the season pass holders can barely turn, making the WROD doubly scary?

Exactly.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Anyone who’s desperate to ski a WROD in November will gladly fork over $100+ to do it

Is that still true? I know Arapahoe Basin has a cult-following crazy line each year, but is that the norm? I think it's more now the exception.

That Lucas guy who does those flics has hit a bunch of places opening days for 2 years in a row now and they're generally pretty empty. Even with last year's fantastic early snow it was empty, and obviously with this years total lack of snow it's been empty.

 

[deadheadskier]

Unwashed thyself has heard thine message and shall junior and I desire to schuss Loons sporting trails of thine iKon club, we shall surrender 89 pounds sterling. A mere pittance for the privilege we should be so grateful to have. We will also be sure to park our motor in the back as to not disturb you.

As you were my lords.

 

[joshua segal]

What's attracted more negative PR this week? Okemo charging $124 for a single trail at opening, or the viral video from Mammoth showing all of California skiing down to Broadway?

While I wasn't there, the answer would be based on the answer to the question, "How crowded was it?" If it was crowded, allowing more people in, would merely aggravate a WROD situation. If it was not crowded, then, the price was too high. Killington was charging over $100 for a day ticket on Saturday and that's for 550 feet of vertical and with the 250-step climb back to the top of K1 at the end of the day!

 

[doublediamond]

Supply and demand

Some of the demand is pre paid for. Some of the demand is walk up. There is very limited supply. So to deal with it and not have overcrowding you jack up the price of the walk up prices.

Pretty simple economics 101

 

[deadheadskier]

I would buy into that theory more readily if these resorts, Epic especially, showed one inkling of care towards crowd control during the regular season.

Something tells me I if show up at Sunapee or Loon on a Saturday morning in February, I won't be saying, "Wow. It only took me ten minutes to park! And look all of these moderate lines and uncrowded slopes! So many seats in the lodge too! This is a totally comfortable amount of crowding. iKon and Epic leadership truly cares about their pass holder experience."

Sorry, not buying the day ticket rates in November or any other time of the season has anything at all to do with managing crowds and the guest experience. It is 100% designed to encourage season pass purchases.

 

[drjeff]

I would buy into that theory more readily if these resorts, Epic especially, showed one inkling of care towards crowd control during the regular season.

Something tells me I if show up at Sunapee or Loon on a Saturday morning in February, I won't be saying, "Wow. It only took me ten minutes to park! And look all of these moderate lines and uncrowded slopes! So many seats in the lodge too! This is a totally comfortable amount of crowding. iKon and Epic leadership truly cares about their pass holder experience."

Sorry, not buying the day ticket rates in November or any other time of the season has anything at all to do with managing crowds and the guest experience. It is 100% designed to encourage season pass purchases.

What resort or resort company that doesn't have hard limits on either day tickets or total number of passes sold annually doesn't want to sell as many as possible?

If you're going to Sunapee or Loon on a Saturday in February as you referenced, there's a very good chance that the majority of terrain will be available along with all of the lifts spinning, so there's a better ability to handle more people obviously

Now if one then pivots to the charge more for a pass so less people will buy them angle for crowd control purposes, then skiing once again gets the "it's too expensive" line of attack.

Really is no good solution where the folks who pre bought the goods (via a pass) get the access they paid for when they want, and at the same time, the folks who didn't buy a pass, get a "low demand" price on a walk up ticket in times of high demand (and high demand may be because of limited terrain or it may be because of a great weather and snow condition weekend day in the prime of the season.

More people are on the hill now these days than in the past. There's a bunch of reasons for that. Not a lot of new acres of terrain or resorts have opened up lately either to increase capacity for the extra volume of people. Have to manage it somehow. And since not everyone has the ability to say only ski on Tues-Thurs when resorts often have plenty of extra capacity, they have to figure out how to manage those more infrequent times where they are at/near capacity and that seems to be morphing to a "pay more to play" model for those who didn't buy a pass. Is it the best model? Who knows. But it's the model it seems like many of the bigger players are going with currently

 

[thebigo]

Reading through this thread at SR with bunch of ragged families training for the weekend. We are the only family with passes, handed out several buddy tickets that got friends on the hill for $62 this weekend. Youth would have been maybe $20 cheaper? Not a terrible price for a couple top to bottom trails on Jordan. Guess the point is there are always workarounds and seldom a reason to ever pay full list price.

 

[urungus]

Black Friday sale !! Saw on r/skiing

 

[thetrailboss]

Black Friday sale !! Saw on r/skiing

View attachment 59531

“That’s right! It’s so EPIC!”

 

[ThatGuy]

“22 Grand a night is basically charity…why don’t you crawl back to your box under the bridge and complain some more if you can’t swing it”