VAIL SUCKS

[BenedictGomez]

Vail is somewhat more complicit as the one place that requires passholders to be present to redeem buddy tickets.

LOL. I mean, if we're being honest about it those Buddy Tickets aren't a good deal either. I find them somewhat comical.

Vail Resorts Buddy Tickets - "We'll graciously give you a little lube instead of you taking it without."

Frankly, the fact you (apparently?) think Buddy Tickets are a good deal just demonstrates how afoul of a rational single-day pricing option we've all come.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm as big as a Vail hater as anyone, but Alterra actually is the more guilty offender of not providing a solution for last minute decision, low day count skiers.

As long as people know about it, the Epic day passes are an exceptional value. iKon doesn't come close to competing on price with a day ticket product.

Now, iKon skiers might prefer that infrequent skiers can't access their resorts on the cheap and contribute to crowding. But that's not the discussion we are having.

If iKon offered a competitive day ticket product, I'd absolutely buy it. They don't, so I buy a couple of the Epic ones. I have to hold my nose to do it, but Vail makes it too reasonable of an offer to ignore getting a couple day passes .

 

[jimmywilson69]

I have to hold my nose to do it, but Vail makes it too reasonable of an offer to ignore getting a couple day passes .

I 100% agree, BUT you are "in the know" I tell every casual skier I know that you can buy the cheapest "day ticket" in the spring. I'm sure the majority of casual skiers aren't thinking that way. So the Epic day tickets, while a good deal,t doesn't solve the problem of a family of 4 deciding they have a free weekend and want to go try skiing. Only to be slapped with $1000 price tag for a Saturday. I understand "the price model" but its not something that is conducive to growing the sport IMO. Especially where I live where all the feeder hills are owned by Vail and have cut any discount programs. If they were smart, they'd let the "feeder hills" offer some sort of learn to ski package or something that interests people into the sport. then spring the "hey look how cheap a season pass is" line on them.

 

[drjeff]

A friend ran a huge New Years party at the Grand Summit and put the whole thing on that card. The $10 vouchers that showed up looked like book. I forget what percetage the card gave for resort purchases, maybe 5%?

It's been so long that I can't remember the % back in rewards it gave you either. All I know is that over the course of a year, my wife and I would rack up $500 to 600 on average in reward vouchers and bring the stack with us to guest services when we bought our next season's passes

 

[djd66]

If iKon offered a competitive day ticket product, I'd absolutely buy it. They don't, so I buy a couple of the Epic ones. I have to hold my nose to do it, but Vail makes it too reasonable of an offer to ignore getting a couple day passes .

what about the Sugarbush quad pack at $99/day?

 

[deadheadskier]

I 100% agree, BUT you are "in the know" I tell every casual skier I know that you can buy the cheapest "day ticket" in the spring. I'm sure the majority of casual skiers aren't thinking that way. So the Epic day tickets, while a good deal,t doesn't solve the problem of a family of 4 deciding they have a free weekend and want to go try skiing. Only to be slapped with $1000 price tag for a Saturday. I understand "the price model" but its not something that is conducive to growing the sport IMO. Especially where I live where all the feeder hills are owned by Vail and have cut any discount programs. If they were smart, they'd let the "feeder hills" offer some sort of learn to ski package or something that interests people into the sport. then spring the "hey look how cheap a season pass is" line on them.

All true. You definitely need to be "in the know." The only point I'm making is Vail gets a lot more criticism for their pricing model than iKon and it 100% should be the opposite. iKon resorts seem far less interested in offering a good value for infrequent skiers than Vail does.

Vail at least attempts to broaden their economic offerings by having tiers for all of their passes including the day passes. IKon does no such thing with their Session pass. They only offer a top tier product.

I paid $208 total for two Epic Day passes for myself and two kids to use in NH.

iKon only offers session passes good for all mountains. To get a two day pass for myself and two kids cost $667!!

So, $334 a day for us to ski Loon vs $104 to ski any of the 4 Vail NH areas.

Even going with the comparable all resort blackout Epic pass to line up with iKon Session, you are paying $447 for Epic. So, $224 a day vs $334.

While still more than I want to pay, I'm much more likely to take my kids to experience Stowe for a day at $224 than Sugarbush at $334.

 

[thetrailboss]

All true. You definitely need to be "in the know." The only point I'm making is Vail gets a lot more criticism for their pricing model than iKon and it 100% should be the opposite. iKon resorts seem far less interested in offering a good value for infrequent skiers than Vail does.

Vail at least attempts to broaden their economic offerings by having tiers for all of their passes including the day passes. IKon does no such thing with their Session pass. They only offer a top tier product.

I paid $208 total for two Epic Day passes for myself and two kids to use in NH.

iKon only offers session passes good for all mountains. To get a two day pass for myself and two kids cost $667!!

So, $334 a day for us to ski Loon vs $104 to ski any of the 4 Vail NH areas.

Even going with the comparable all resort blackout Epic pass to line up with iKon Session, you are paying $447 for Epic. So, $224 a day vs $334.

While still more than I want to pay, I'm much more likely to take my kids to experience Stowe for a day at $224 than Sugarbush at $334.

Yeah, Vail owns and controls ALL their resorts on Epic except for Telluride and maybe one or two others. They have more control.

IKON is composed of a core group of Alterra owned areas and a confederacy of POWDR, Boyne, a couple other independent or larger resorts. There is less control. Additionally,
IKON has always tried to promote itself as a more premium experience.

 

[eatskisleep]

Podcast #176: Wildcat General Manager JD Crichton

“There is no intention to make us all one and the same”

open.substack.com

 

[Newpylong]

This one was exceptional maddening to listen to because of the fluff. Another Vail mouthpiece shifting the blame to everything but management when their regional competitors had no-issues.

If you can't look to within you'll never improve.

Also shame on Stuart for only focusing on passes and saying "most families can afford some form of access to Wildcat" (at $613 for a Northwest Value Pass).

 

[jaytrem]

Also shame on Stuart for only focusing on passes and saying "most families can afford some form of access to Wildcat" (at $613 for a Northwest Value Pass).

To be fair they are on the lowest tier of Epic Day passes. If your willing to commit to 4 days you're under $50. Yes, there are even cheaper option at other areas, but that's not bad. It also includes the rest of the NH Epic areas.

 

[Edd]

This one was exceptional maddening to listen to because of the fluff. Another Vail mouthpiece shifting the blame to everything but management when their regional competitors had no-issues.

If you can't look to within you'll never improve.

Also shame on Stuart for only focusing on passes and saying "most families can afford some form of access to Wildcat" (at $613 for a Northwest Value Pass).

That'll drive me a bit nuts but I'll likely listen anyway. I still hadn't written off getting an Epic pass for next year but the Indy adding new areas brings some spice to my season so I'm pretty unlikely to buy at this point.

 

[deadheadskier]

Also shame on Stuart for only focusing on passes and saying "most families can afford some form of access to Wildcat" (at $613 for a Northwest Value Pass).

He's not wrong. You just need to buy an Epic Day Pass in the off season. Those prices are crazy good, especially when you buy more than one day. We bought two and it'll only cost $104 total per day for the three of us to ski. That is hardly expensive in 2024.

I don't think it's too much to expect people to pre-plan to get the best deal. Numerous other entertainment industries all do this.

We typically hit a water park or amusement park a couple of times a summer. We buy those tickets when they're on sale in winter. Ticketmaster does similar with flash sales on $25 concert tickets. I'm sure golf does the same. My gym has tennis facilities and they do crazy deals on court rental fees when bought in advance.

I'm sticking to my guns in that Vail actually does value the infrequent skiers much more than the competition. You can't get anywhere near as good of a value from iKon, Boyne, Powdr etc.

 

[EPB]

He's not wrong. You just need to buy an Epic Day Pass in the off season. Those prices are crazy good, especially when you buy more than one day. We bought two and it'll only cost $104 total per day for the three of us to ski. That is hardly expensive in 2024.

I don't think it's too much to expect people to pre-plan to get the best deal. Numerous other entertainment industries all do this.

We typically hit a water park or amusement park a couple of times a summer. We buy those tickets when they're on sale in winter. Ticketmaster does similar with flash sales on $25 concert tickets. I'm sure golf does the same. My gym has tennis facilities and they do crazy deals on court rental fees when bought in advance.

I'm sticking to my guns in that Vail actually does value the infrequent skiers much more than the competition. You can't get anywhere near as good of a value from iKon, Boyne, Powdr etc.

To put the $614 in perspective, the dollar is worth half what it was in the mid 90s and 1/3 what it was in the mid 80s (per CPI). I'm too young to recall crazy cheap pass prices in the 90s, but I think the $300 range was about right.

The other big difference from the 90s is the proliferation of the internet at our fingertips. It makes planning in advance so much easier it would be neglectful not to.

Of all the reasons to hate on Vail, lift access affordability isn't one of them. In fact, the affordability of lift access creates many of the reasons people hate on Vail.

 

[abc]

I'm as big as a Vail hater as anyone, but Alterra actually is the more guilty offender of not providing a solution for last minute decision, low day count skiers.

As long as people know about it, the Epic day passes are an exceptional value. iKon doesn't come close to competing on price with a day ticket product.

The Epic day pass isn’t exactly “last minute”. You have to buy it before the season starts.

If you mean you can use it “last minute” on the day once you bought it, yes. But that’s not exactly “last minute” when you have to guess how many days to buy. Then which day to use it.

Like all pre-paid day tickets, sometimes you run out of tickets half way through the season. Other times, you run out of season and had to “burn the tickets” even when the snow is melting fast. Or worse, injuries or other life interruptions.

 

[deadheadskier]

The Epic day pass isn’t exactly “last minute”. You have to buy it before the season starts.

If you mean you can use it “last minute” on the day once you bought it, yes. But that’s not exactly “last minute” when you have to guess how many days to buy. Then which day to use it.

Like all pre-paid day tickets, sometimes you run out of tickets half way through the season. Other times, you run out of season and had to “burn the tickets” even when the snow is melting fast. Or worse, injuries or other life interruptions.

Thank you for your lesson in semantics. We are all so much better off for it.

 

[abc]

Thank you for your lesson in semantics. We are all so much better off for it.

I’m constantly being lectured on how “inexpensive” something is when compared to purposely designed insanely expensive options. “It’s just semantics“

I enjoy poking holes in that ”optimistic semantics theory”.

 

[x10003q]

All true. You definitely need to be "in the know." The only point I'm making is Vail gets a lot more criticism for their pricing model than iKon and it 100% should be the opposite. iKon resorts seem far less interested in offering a good value for infrequent skiers than Vail does.

Vail at least attempts to broaden their economic offerings by having tiers for all of their passes including the day passes. IKon does no such thing with their Session pass. They only offer a top tier product.

I paid $208 total for two Epic Day passes for myself and two kids to use in NH.

iKon only offers session passes good for all mountains. To get a two day pass for myself and two kids cost $667!!

So, $334 a day for us to ski Loon vs $104 to ski any of the 4 Vail NH areas.

Even going with the comparable all resort blackout Epic pass to line up with iKon Session, you are paying $447 for Epic. So, $224 a day vs $334.

While still more than I want to pay, I'm much more likely to take my kids to experience Stowe for a day at $224 than Sugarbush at $334.

Thank you for pointing out this feature. We are IKON and did not even know it existed.

 

[deadheadskier]

I’m constantly being lectured on how “inexpensive” something is when compared to purposely designed insanely expensive options. “It’s just semantics“

I enjoy poking holes in that ”optimistic semantics theory”.

Defining things differently that suit your perspective and desires =/= poking holes.

But I'm glad you're enjoying yourself.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Summa Summa Summa Time!

 

[deadheadskier]

Summa Summa Summa Time!

Oh, ABC's insufferable contrarian takes are 365 my friend.