Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[drjeff]

Nice job totally dodging my questions . Extra points for the whataboutism encore too.

I conceded the man knows a lot and is very accomplished in my first comment on him. You know what? Lots of people have illustrious careers that oddly go south. Sidney Powell was once considered a rock star attorney. Does that opinion amongst her peers remain today? Probably not. Her integrity took a backseat to an agenda.

So, I'll ask again:

Do you think a MD should be referring to MRNA vaccines as Gene Therapy and broadcasting that false statement through multiple media outlets?

What's his motivation for misrepresenting the facts there?

Here's one more....

Are these the typical behaviors of a professional scientist?

Ok, basic stuff here. A some genes have the ability to code for molecules that make proteins. The mRNA vaccines cause our bodies to make the proteins that code for the spike proteins synonymous for COVID for which then our bodies then make the protective antibodies for. Gene therapy may be a very broad term used here, but it's still in the ball park of having our bodies make a specific protein.

Is he misrepresenting the facts or is it the media and the Pharmaceutical industry, with great financial ties to the vaccines trying to misrepresent him for their own benefit? And do remember that the Pharmaceutical industry has petitioned the FDA for legal liability protection from potential side effects from these vaccines for over a 50yr time frame. We are likely going to agree to disagree on this one DHS

Are his behaviors atypical of a scientist? Well frankly aren't scientists supposed to ask questions and challenge hypotheses until they can be verified by colleagues all over the globe in similar experiments as part of the scientific method where some hypotheses are found to be scientific truth and others false?

And I am sure you will try and take this apart, but here you go on Dr Malone's role in the development of mRNA inter mixed with various points he brought up during his 3hr Rogan interview, since I am guessing that many commenting in this thread haven't listened to it in its entirety, if at all. And seeing how the text of it has been now entered into the Congressional Record, various fact checking agencies can't interject their opinions on his actual words if cited

Humanity's whistleblower – Dr. Robert Malone sounds the alarm

The Chief Architect of mRNA platform technology is blowing the whistle on the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines. And if he is correct, we are all in grave danger – and 16,000

www.thedesertreview.com

 

[SnowRock]

Again that’s not what gene therapy is or how it is broadly understood. It is a purposeful conflation of the term being used to scare people into thinking mRNA vaccines alter your DNA. They do not. The vaccines do not enter the cell nucleus

Gene therapies are focused on making changes to dna to fix mutated or non functional genes. Luxturna is a gene therapy. Kymriah is a gene therapy. CRISPR gene editing would be gene therapy… not mRNA vaccines. Yes gene therapies use viral vectors like AAV to perform gene insertions and mRNA could be used in a similar fashion, but that doesn’t make traditional AAV vaccines gene therapy anymore than it makes mRNA vaccines gene therapy. Further I’d argue very simply that by their nature, vaccines aren’t therapies. They aren’t intended to “treat” disease like a therapeutic.

Edit to add that I slogged my way through most of that poorly written, rambling, desert news piece. Let’s set aside the insane new world order population and mind control stuff…. And focus on the double down of HCQ and Ivermectin as the miracle cures for COVID.

If there was such a huge conspiracy against HCQ why did multiple pharmaceutical companies that actually manufacture the drug make millions and millions of doses available for free early on in the pandemic? In fact one company re-opened a closed plant to help make more?

Then let’s do a little digging into the Ivermectin research…. how many of the “seminal” papers that have been used to promote the efficacy of Ivermectin have been retracted or shown to be absolutely fraudulent at this point.

 

[deadheadskier]

In other words Dr Malone chose his words very carefully and deliberately for a specific audience to reaffirm suspicions they already have.

 

[deadheadskier]

Ok, basic stuff here. A some genes have the ability to code for molecules that make proteins. The mRNA vaccines cause our bodies to make the proteins that code for the spike proteins synonymous for COVID for which then our bodies then make the protective antibodies for. Gene therapy may be a very broad term used here, but it's still in the ball park of having our bodies make a specific protein.

Is he misrepresenting the facts or is it the media and the Pharmaceutical industry, with great financial ties to the vaccines trying to misrepresent him for their own benefit? And do remember that the Pharmaceutical industry has petitioned the FDA for legal liability protection from potential side effects from these vaccines for over a 50yr time frame. We are likely going to agree to disagree on this one DHS

Are his behaviors atypical of a scientist? Well frankly aren't scientists supposed to ask questions and challenge hypotheses until they can be verified by colleagues all over the globe in similar experiments as part of the scientific method where some hypotheses are found to be scientific truth and others false?

And I am sure you will try and take this apart, but here you go on Dr Malone's role in the development of mRNA inter mixed with various points he brought up during his 3hr Rogan interview, since I am guessing that many commenting in this thread haven't listened to it in its entirety, if at all. And seeing how the text of it has been now entered into the Congressional Record, various fact checking agencies can't interject their opinions on his actual words if cited

Humanity's whistleblower – Dr. Robert Malone sounds the alarm

The Chief Architect of mRNA platform technology is blowing the whistle on the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines. And if he is correct, we are all in grave danger – and 16,000

www.thedesertreview.com

You're a bright guy Jeff. A pHD. In your schooling days, had you had to write a paper on MRNA vaccines and called them Gene Therapy, how do you think your professors would have reacted to the claim?

 

[jaytrem]

You're a bright guy Jeff. A pHD. In your schooling days, had you had to write a paper on MRNA vaccines and called them Gene Therapy, how do you think your professors would have reacted to the claim?

I like Jeff. But after his African American vaccine stats, I think his credibility is kinda shot for a while. Sorry Jeff. Statistics wise, that was the equivalent of saying the New England Patriots won about half of all the Super Bowls. While in reality they won about half the Super Bowls that they were actually in. If somebody told you the New England Patriots won 22 Super Bowls would you continue to listen to anything they say about football? That's just too big an error to currently take his opinion in the vaccine area seriously. I assume that chart, like many others left and right, got passed along by whatever group because at quick glance it appears to prove something that helps their agenda. Just like VAERS thing, people hear what they want to hear and then pass it along. Very sloppy.

 

[Andrew B.]

Here is an interesting tid bit from the NYT I saw posted on another site. I found the article but it’s behind the NYT pay wall for me.

“Consider this: Before Omicron, a typical vaccinated 75-year-old who contracted Covid had a roughly similar risk of death — around 1 in 200 — as a typical 75-year-old who contracted the flu. (Here are the details behind that calculation, which is based on an academic study.)

Omicron has changed the calculation. Because it is milder than earlier versions of the virus, Covid now appears to present less threat to most vaccinated elderly people than the annual flu does.

The flu, of course, does present risk for the elderly. And the sheer size of the Omicron surge may argue for caution over the next few weeks. But the combination of vaccines and Omicron’s apparent mildness means that, for an individual, Covid increasingly resembles the kind of health risk that people accept every day.”

PS almost 88% of the elderly are vaccinated

 

[cdskier]

Humanity's whistleblower – Dr. Robert Malone sounds the alarm

The Chief Architect of mRNA platform technology is blowing the whistle on the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines. And if he is correct, we are all in grave danger – and 16,000

www.thedesertreview.com

Have you done any research on the author of this article? He's written books that continue to push Ivermectic as a miracle cure. And he also refuses to write and publish under his own name so we really don't even know exactly who he is. Not exactly what I would consider a reliable source...

 

[Great Bear]

Here is an interesting tid bit from the NYT I saw posted on another site. I found the article but it’s behind the NYT pay wall for me.

“Consider this: Before Omicron, a typical vaccinated 75-year-old who contracted Covid had a roughly similar risk of death — around 1 in 200 — as a typical 75-year-old who contracted the flu. (Here are the details behind that calculation, which is based on an academic study.)

Omicron has changed the calculation. Because it is milder than earlier versions of the virus, Covid now appears to present less threat to most vaccinated elderly people than the annual flu does.

The flu, of course, does present risk for the elderly. And the sheer size of the Omicron surge may argue for caution over the next few weeks. But the combination of vaccines and Omicron’s apparent mildness means that, for an individual, Covid increasingly resembles the kind of health risk that people accept every day.”

PS almost 88% of the elderly are vaccinated

I have seen similar - or maybe even saw this NYT article.

If accurate this is "good" (?) news (If you can call anything about a highly transmissible virus good) - i think for many of us our concern is not about personal safety, but for the safety of others should ICU's and hospitals gradually become more and more overwhelmed. As you reference, the sheer size of the Omicron surge may cause hospitals to go way beyond capacity, even if the risk to an individual is low.

For this reason, I think it is smart for us, as a society, to be very cautious over the next handful of weeks.

 

[drjeff]

If science over time shows that what Dr Malone claims is totally wrong, well then I will own my error in judgement and apologize for waisting peoples time on this.

As for the Ivermectin thing. Isn't that the drug that the author in the Rolling Stone article last year claims an ER Doc in rural Kansas said that people overdoing on it was clogging up their ER's so that gun shot victims were turned away? Oh wait a minute, that was completely flase and made up. Or the drug that CNN labeled as a horse de-wormer (which in one usage it is) that Rogan took, along with monoclonal antibodies and Azythromycin (pretty sure it was a Z-pack if I recall off the top of my head) when he tested positive last Fall. Oh wait a minute, CNN's own Dr Sanjay Gupta admitted that his netowrk was wrong/inaccurate with how they spun that story. Or is it the same Ivermectin that has been used literally billions of times, by humans, safely over decades and since it's off patent is very cheap to make, with little drug company profit, and was reportedly used very effectively as a combo of drugs given in one of the Indian provinces of over 200 million people to help squash their Delta spike? And yes, sometimes, physicians WILL indeed use some drugs off label if in their clinical judgement the science makes sense. If they didn't, well then Viagra would still likely just be an anti-hypertensive medication and say Bo-tox would just be used for wrinkles and not the treatment of migraines, etc.

By nature I tend to think outside of the box on things when the background science behind the issue at hand suggests that there may be a different, possibly better way to do something. If folks never thought outside the box, so many things we now take as the normal, would never of cecome the normal, nor will things that say 10 years from now that will be the normal, likely be discovered. If someone with respect to TREATING those with Covid symptoms severe enough to actually require treatment, since I think we all can agree that inspite of what was hoped a year ago or so, we CAN'T simply vaccinate our way out of COVID, seemingly brings up a possible treatment option for those with Covid, then all of the sudden it seems like the media, as well as public health officials have gone to great extents to suppress that line of thought and keep doubling down on vaccines as the only answer to COVID. Frankly that is something that is concerning to me atleast.

I hope for all of our sakes that mother nature gets her act togther and we get prolnged cold air and snowstorms ASAP so we all can spend more time on the slopes rather than talking COVID

 

[abc]

Here is an interesting tid bit from the NYT I saw posted on another site. I found the article but it’s behind the NYT pay wall for me.

If you can't access the article in full, perhaps you can provide the link to the article so those who have access can read it and see the context in which the limited view you saw?

 

[Andrew B.]

If you can't access the article in full, perhaps you can provide the link to the article so those who have access can read it and see the context in which the limited view you saw?

I googled it (C&P the whole thing) and it was the first thing that came up.
If you have access please post more of it, even if you think I wouldn’t like it. Sounds like it has some “data” in it.

I may actually seek out a copy later.

 

[Andrew B.]

since I think we all can agree that inspite of what was hoped a year ago or so, we CAN'T simply vaccinate our way out of COVID,

Feels like there are many here still clinging to that thought rather strongly and would rather spend their time blaming the un-vaccinated for all the issues instead of looking at what the real long term solutions might be. Including convincing the unvaccinated to get vaccinated. Forcing it on people by threatening their livelihoods isn’t how to convince people feel at ease.

 

[VTKilarney]

Omicron has changed the calculation. Because it is milder than earlier versions of the virus, Covid now appears to present less threat to most vaccinated elderly people than the annual flu does.

The catch is that Omicron is likely much more contagious than the flu.

That said, we can't stop it. Countries like New Zealand that are fans of widespread lockdowns are just delaying the inevitable.

 

[drjeff]

Feels like there are many here still clinging to that thought rather strongly and would rather spend their time blaming the un-vaccinated for all the issues instead of looking at what the real long term solutions might be. Including convincing the unvaccinated to get vaccinated. Forcing it on people by threatening their livelihoods isn’t how to convince people feel at ease.

Heck in my own household, granted its only a sample size of 4, so take it with a grain of salt for sure, we've had a combined 12 jabs now (7 jabs of Pfizer, 4 of Moderna and 1 of J&J), Our social circle is to our knowledge almost all of vaxxed friends, we had our 1st breakthrough case in our house hold this week. Fortunately it has just been very mild sniffles and a slight scratchy throat for the 1st 36 or so hours and they've been feeling 100% normal the last 2 days now, and they're anxiously waiting for tomorrow to finish so they can get out of the quarantine at home they've been in all week.

The vaccines sure seem to limit the severity of the disease process, no doubt in my mind. However while they may be a part of the ultimate solution to COVID, they are seemingly more and more just that, a PART of the solution, and maybe not even a part for everyone

 

[Andrew B.]

The catch is that Omicron is likely much more contagious than the flu.

That said, we can't stop it. Countries like New Zealand that are fans of widespread lockdowns are just delaying the inevitable.

Agreed
Those at risk need take every precaution

 

[icecoast1]

Feels like there are many here still clinging to that thought rather strongly and would rather spend their time blaming the un-vaccinated for all the issues instead of looking at what the real long term solutions might be. Including convincing the unvaccinated to get vaccinated. Forcing it on people by threatening their livelihoods isn’t how to convince people feel at ease

The cats probably already out of the bag in terms of convincing most of the vaccine-hesitant people to get the shot at this point.

 

[Andrew B.]

The cats probably already out of the bag in terms of convincing most of the vaccine-hesitant people to get the shot at this point.

Respectfully disagree
Of course some will take it to the grave like smoking cigarettes.

I heard a story from an associate
His brother and wife and disabled son not vax’d
Husband spent 6 days in the hospital
All 3 will now get vax’d

Sad way to get convinced but I have heard other similar stories.

 

[icecoast1]

Respectfully disagree
Of course some will take it to the grave like smoking cigarettes.

I heard a story from an associate
His brother and wife and disabled son not vax’d
Husband spent 6 days in the hospital
All 3 will now get vax’d

Sad way to get convinced but I have heard other similar stories.

Some will surely get it and the numbers will go up, but I just don't see the majority of people rushing out to get it, especially with omicron being so mild. I don't see a major course correction in the actions being taken by those in power that's motivating these people not to get it either...

 

[Andrew B.]

especially with omicron being so mild.

With every variant getting less “crushing” it seems the closer we are to treating this like a flu.

 

[cdskier]

Or is it the same Ivermectin that has been used literally billions of times, by humans, safely over decades and since it's off patent is very cheap to make, with little drug company profit, and was reportedly used very effectively as a combo of drugs given in one of the Indian provinces of over 200 million people to help squash their Delta spike?

A drug being used safely for decades is irrelevant if it actually doesn't do anything to treat a particular disease.

You do know that India took Ivermectin off their clinical guidance months ago...right?

The Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) and the National Task Force on Covid-19 have dropped the use of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) drugs from their revised guidelines for the treatment of the infection.

The decision was taken after experts found that these drugs have little to no effect on Covid-related mortality or clinical recovery of the patient.

Additionally, there was a high risk of bias in many of the studies, particularly with the ones showing mortality benefit, as the level of certainty is low in them.