Bumps vs. POW

[Greg]

WOW. You have a memory like an elephant!

:lol: Your post in that thread is interesting:

I, personally, think bump skiing is pennance. I can survive bump runs, but my "style" is non exsistant. Can ski anything on the hill, but bumps aren't always pretty. It is a specific skill to learn, and it dosen't really teach you the fundementals of skiing completely. It sure as heck won't help you to learn what carving is all about. In fact, one guy I ski with is a great bumper. Years and years with a K-Mart pass. UGLY skier. Skids everything. Can't ski well in deep snow. Always trying to muscle his skis around. I think we are both expert skiers. We come from different backrounds and our styles refect what our stengths are as skiers.

I would say that even a well coached race can't just jump into the bumps and go, they need to be trained, or train themselves, in the displine.

Summary: Just because you can ski bumps well dosen't mean you're an expert, and just because you can't, it doesn't mean you aren't.

A better way to determine skill would be how well you do everything. Can you arc'em all the way down the hill? Can you get thru glades safely? Can you mac powder up to your theighs? Can you ski bumped steep in control? If you are proficient in all of these, I'd say you rock. You may rock some things harder then others, but you still ROCK!

Pretty much matches your comments here, except for the "I think we are both expert skiers" part while in post one of this thread you said, "please don't take this to mean I think I am a better skier then anyone. I consider myself a solid intermediate." Well, which is it? Did your ability retrograde the past few years? :razz:

 

[jack97]

Which technique will make you a better skier?

My take. Skiing pow is a subtle thing. It teaches you how to carve. People who ski pow well can carve the crap outta groomed snow, using the ski properly.

Skiing bumps take alot of skill. It teaches you to stay forwad and absorb terrain. But ripping bumpers can't always carve and on open groomed snow I've seen alot of people who are good bumpers just skid around.

If you can't lay down a nice carve, you can't really ski pow well, but you may be able to bump well. If you can carve and ski pow efficiently, that doesn't mean you can bump well, but at that point, who cares...you should be skiing pow anyway.
I say learning to ski pow well will teach you more about proper ski technique and will generally teach you to be a better skier then bumps. You?

Fire away....I'm ready for it...
edit: please don't take this to mean I think I am a better skier then anyone. I consider myself a solid intermediate.

I had a lesson from Evan over at Whaleback. Former Olympic and WC bumper, the guy can carve and he can do it backwards... yes backwards.

 

[2knees]

I had a lesson from Evan over at Whaleback.

hijack comin.

is that something you have to make prior arrangements for or does he offer those on a regular, daily basis?

also, what did it cost and what were your thoughts on it?

 

[campgottagopee]

POW vs. Bumps----dunno which is better to hone skills and such, but I do know I prefer steeps than either one.

 

[SkiDork]

hijack comin.

is that something you have to make prior arrangements for or does he offer those on a regular, daily basis?

also, what did it cost and what were your thoughts on it?

Evan is pretty cool and down to earth. Just give a call over there and ask for him (he'll most likely answer the phone anyway) and ask him all the questions you want.

 

[cbcbd]

I think turn earners have the best technique advantage for all. Since 95% of the day is going up we have all that time to really concentrate on how we want our form for the 5% to look like. It's all about visualizing the form... be the snow... na na na na na na na na na na na

 

[2knees]

Evan is pretty cool and down to earth. Just give a call over there and ask for him (he'll most likely answer the phone anyway) and ask him all the questions you want.

seemed pretty simple, i went to the website and it says to email him with any questions, so i did.

i know what i'm getting for christmas!

 

[SkiDork]

seemed pretty simple, i went to the website and it says to email him with any questions, so i did.

i know what i'm getting for christmas!

takes him a few days to answer e-mail but he eventually does.

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

Sorry, but it's just not the case. I skiied for years with a guy who killed the bumps. I used to make fun of him trying to ski high speed runs because he couldn't rail turns. He would get all pissed and say he was carving but he was doing big fast smears. He ripped the bumps though...

From day one until now was the guy spending All his time in the bumps?
How does he ski from getting off the lift until he gets into the bumps?
Was he skiing his bump skis when he was in the powder with you?
Or was he on some fat skis?

There are many other questions for you but they might better be asked over a beer.

 

[awf170]

I think turn earners have the best technique advantage for all. Since 95% of the day is going up we have all that time to really concentrate on how we want our form for the 5% to look like. It's all about visualizing the form... be the snow... na na na na na na na na na na na

Hahahahahaha....

I mean LOOK AT THIS FORM!!!

I guess Wildcat's HSQ didn't give you enough thinking time?

 

[JD]

:lol: Your post in that thread is interesting:



Pretty much matches your comments here, except for the "I think we are both expert skiers" part while in post one of this thread you said, "please don't take this to mean I think I am a better skier then anyone. I consider myself a solid intermediate." Well, which is it? Did your ability retrograde the past few years? :razz:

Actually, yes. I switched to light tele gear. Other then that, I said prtty much everything I just said again here.

 

[JD]

From day one until now was the guy spending All his time in the bumps?
How does he ski from getting off the lift until he gets into the bumps?
Was he skiing his bump skis when he was in the powder with you?
Or was he on some fat skis?

There are many other questions for you but they might better be asked over a beer.

Yes, until he moved to Stowe..
badly....
no, he bought some midfats after I told him over and over to go at least 90mm at the waist...which he didn't until he bought the midfats and realized they suck in deep snow.
^
I think he's prolly a good all around skiier now after being at Stowe for 4-5 years...where there's almost no bump scene most of the year.

Alchemist?

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

I call bullshit to anyone that thinks a good bumper can't carve. There's a big difference between being able to carve, and wanting to carve. Most bumpers just keep the short snappy skidded turns once they hit the groomer because that's the style of skiing they enjoy. Skiing steep bumps well is one of the hardest types of skiing there is, IMO, second only to tight steep trees and hucking.

Most people can fake it in powder. Not so much in the bumps. Powder is more about letting the skis run, being light on the feet and finding that perfect fore/aft balance. My biggest problem in powder is I tend to still take short quick turns. Once I remember to just flow down the hill, it gets a lot easier.

And I've never seen a good bumper who suddenly flails on the groomers or in powder, 2knees included despite his post above. Put Pat on some fat skis and he'll ski powder with the best of them, I'm sure. Ask him to break his stance a little and lay down a carve, and I bet he could do a decent job. I'm going to ask him to next time I ski with him and film it.

Good points made Greg One element that is overlooked by all but the best skiers is..........................
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>................................................................................................>..................?
Snow imput VS skier input.
You know ..Like...Just what is happening under your foot.
If one has no idea on what she snow feels like under the foot one will never become a better skier.
Putting a ski up on edge and standing on it so it decambers is the only way to be able to Feel the snow and how it gives under your edge.
If you are just pivoting your skis under your feet (windsheild wiper turns)while zipping down the bump line having balance, tempo,flexing and extension are your best friends.
But when you run into a great bump skier the above factors are amplified by short quick edge sets.
Thus resulting in Snow Feel and skier input.
In deep snow speed and flotation along with tempo balance and knowing the correct pressure that is needed so you can read how the snow feels u n d e r y o u r f e e t.
With mid fats skiing with you feet closer together so they "ski as one" ski (gee kind of what every bump skier wants to maintain in every turn), Hummm? when bumping foot speed is key from the get go.
in powder a slower motion both skis skiing as one is key until you get the feel of the snow and you gracefully speed things up.

With fat skis90+mm under foot maintaining a narrow stance is not as big of an issue because the ski is riding higher on/in the snow so once top float is reached you can mimic railing turns almost as if you are on harder snow.
Cool or what?
Well, will one style make one a better skier?
S#!t If you don't know what is going on under your foot you will never know.
all that and no mention of Turn Radius.





bla-bla-bla.

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

Yes, until he moved to Stowe..
badly....
no, he bought some midfats after I told him over and over to go at least 90mm at the waist...which he didn't until he bought the midfats and realized they suck in deep snow.
^
I think he's prolly a good all around skiier now after being at Stowe for 4-5 years...where there's almost no bump scene most of the year.

Alchemist?

JD not to bust your chops here, BUT what did skiers do B4 the invent of W I D E skis?
(Thank You Snow Boarders)
Did they just avoid the deep stuff?

 

[JD]

JD not to bust your chops here, BUT what did skiers do B4 the invent of W I D E skis?
(Thank You Snow Boarders)
Did they just avoid the deep stuff?

no, but they were on 190+cm skis so the surface area was alot greater then 170cm midfat. Fatties make it easy to ski pow. I love watching old ski movies of guys like Plake KILLING the pow on those long skinny boards, but alot of them did it from the back seat...still ripping though!

 

[mattchuck2]

Fat skis make pow skiing alot like groomer skiing too.

This is the key . . .

If you're just talking about pure carving, Fat skis make it easier to Ski Powder in carve mode. Whoever it was that said that Racers suck at Powder, tell that to Jeremy Nobis, Tommy Moe, and Bode Miller in recent ski movies. Fat skis allow them to use their Race Technique to surf the top of the powder . . . The movements are very similar (i.e. Nobis is able to conquer an entire Alaskan face in 4 turns).

On skinny skis, this was not the case. You actually had to get down into the powder, use extension/retraction movements, and play with deflection, rather than angulation. So, in essence, it was more like bump skiing.

Which one would make you a better skier? I'm of the opinion that the best skiers are those who look rock solid in all situations. I find that fresh powder on fat skis makes it easy to look solid . . . Icy bumps with big ruts on steep terrain make it exceedingly difficult. For my money, those who master TOUGH bumps can master anything the mountain can throw at them (even if they might ski with their feet too close together on Groomers).

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

no, but they were on 190+cm skis so the surface area was alot greater then 170cm midfat. Fatties make it easy to ski pow. I love watching old ski movies of guys like Plake KILLING the pow on those long skinny boards, but alot of them did it from the back seat...still ripping though!

got ya, i ll leave to at that.
(a 207cm GS ski was among my favs 4 deep snow back in the day)
But then I have ripped through waist deep pow on an Atomic SL'9 @ 170cm too, go figure.
these days my every day ski is a Fischer T-Stix 96 @ 186cm( thats 96mm under foot).
how times have changed.
Pray 4 Sn*w I am pooped from 2days skiing.
Gawd I love Fuji apples, mighty Fine Fruit!

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

Hahahahahaha....

I mean LOOK AT THIS FORM!!!

I guess Wildcat's HSQ didn't give you enough thinking time?

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!!
fun-knee stuff there awf!
Them atomic CS boots that he is sporting there fore every one 2 see?

 

[JD]

got ya, i ll leave to at that.
(a 207cm GS ski was among my favs 4 deep snow back in the day)
But then I have ripped through waist deep pow on an Atomic SL'9 @ 170cm too, go figure.
these days my every day ski is a Fischer T-Stix 96 @ 186cm( thats 96mm under foot).
how times have changed.
Pray 4 Sn*w I am pooped from 2days skiing.
Gawd I love Fuji apples, mighty Fine Fruit!

90 percent athlete, 10 percent equipment.
Personally, I need that extra 10 percent, really good skiers can ski anything on anything.

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

90 percent athlete, 10 percent equipment.
Personally, I need that extra 10 percent, really good skiers can ski anything on anything.

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!
I did not want to come across like i invented skiing and stuff but you nailed it by saying that it is the skier and not the ski.
PRESTO-BRAVO!!!!