Carinthia at Mount Snow to become 1 HUGE terrain park

[MommaBear]

Seeing TNF totally groomed on that april day we were there was quite a shock though. not sure what that was all about.

Trust me, it wasn't just that April day. In years past, yes, it was bumped up pretty well. But this year, North Face was groomed flat most of the season. Was told it was due to all the rain/freeze spells they had.

 

[deadheadskier]

Trust me, it wasn't just that April day. In years past, yes, it was bumped up pretty well. But this year, North Face was groomed flat most of the season. Was told it was due to all the rain/freeze spells they had.

That seems like a fair excuse. However, from what I read on here, Okemo consistently offered good mogul terrain on several trails throughout the season and I'm sure they were subject to the same weather patterns. Granted different mountain, different management philosophies and Okemo is somewhat the pioneer of seeded bump terrain in New England.

For those who ski Snow and I enjoy bumps, I hope the mountain listens and the terrain is available to you next season.

 

[Greg]

I skied Snow twice last season and once the one before. Before that, most of my Snow experience was the mid-90's and I remember serious bumps on TNF back then. I really hope they dedicate at least one or two runs this season to fully mature bumps over there at any given time. Again, I feel these days seeding is almost necessary in an area that doesn't get abundant snow, especially before the spring softening cycle. Take a hint from the likes of Okemo or Sundown. Seed and then top-coat with snowmaking. A serious dedication to offering a quality bump run is required to pull it off though. Sounds like they're doing that for the park rats. A couple runs is not a lot to ask...

 

[deadheadskier]

Seed and then top-coat with snowmaking. A serious dedication to offering a quality bump run is required to pull it off though. Sounds like they're doing that for the park rats. A couple runs is not a lot to ask...

I think this should be the MO at all ski areas outside of those in northern Vermont that seem to have consistently good bump terrain. I had a great time skiing Wildcat most of last season, but felt the mogul terrain was often lacking. There I think Tomcat Schuss and Wildcat Pitch would be two solid options for seeding.

 

[Greg]

Talk about a thread hijack... :lol:

 

[deadheadskier]

Well, we all know that mogul terrain is a FAR more important topic of discussion than terrain parks

 

[Greg]

Official release:

http://news.alpinezone.com/29453/

I see no mention of bumps.

 

[MommaBear]

I see no mention of bumps.

From Mamaspice on the passholder site:

"We are also committing to investing in alpine racing and to providing moguls as often as weather permits."

and:

"Right now, we're looking at middle ex for seeded bumps (new fan guns there, too.) We also got good feedback on the bumps on Ego, so we may do that when the racing schedule allows. But more bumps are definitely part of the plan."

 

[Greg]

That last sentence is an encouraging one.

 

[jack97]

From Mamaspice on the passholder site:

"We are also committing to investing in alpine racing and to providing moguls as often as weather permits."

and:

"Right now, we're looking at middle ex for seeded bumps (new fan guns there, too.) We also got good feedback on the bumps on Ego, so we may do that when the racing schedule allows. But more bumps are definitely part of the plan."

If they keep it up, I'll be there.

 

[mamaspice]

Ok, time for me to chime in here. First, let me just say that you guys crack me up! Does every thread on alpinezone turn into a bump discussion? (Kidding)

We are totally committed to moguls at Mount Snow. Beartrap will continue to have bumps, and we plan to seed bumps on middle Exhibition (new fan guns) and possibly Ego Alley (when there are no races). Ripcord, Jaws, and Yard Sale hardly ever get groomed, unless we get extreme weather. In addition, we always try to leave at least one, if not two other trails on the North Face alone so they can bump up. In no way do I want to make excuses, but we had rain and/or freezing almost every Wednesday during the main part of last season. That often resulted in the decision to mow the bumps and start over. Then it would freeze again, and then we would mow again, and then....well, you get the picture. Please don't interpret that situation as a lack of commitment to moguls. We definitely get it. The Carinthia park project will not detract from the importance we place on mogul skiers and alpine racers. Not only are we a business that understands the different segments of our clientele, but we are also passionate skiers and snowboarders, and we want what you want.

 

[tree_skier]

Ok, time for me to chime in here. First, let me just say that you guys crack me up! Does every thread on alpinezone turn into a bump discussion? (Kidding)

We do have more then a few on Racing and Trees. On the tree subject a boundry to boundry policy would be nice.

 

[Greg]

Ok, time for me to chime in here. First, let me just say that you guys crack me up! Does every thread on alpinezone turn into a bump discussion? (Kidding)

We are totally committed to moguls at Mount Snow. Beartrap will continue to have bumps, and we plan to seed bumps on middle Exhibition (new fan guns) and possibly Ego Alley (when there are no races). Ripcord, Jaws, and Yard Sale hardly ever get groomed, unless we get extreme weather. In addition, we always try to leave at least one, if not two other trails on the North Face alone so they can bump up. In no way do I want to make excuses, but we had rain and/or freezing almost every Wednesday during the main part of last season. That often resulted in the decision to mow the bumps and start over. Then it would freeze again, and then we would mow again, and then....well, you get the picture. Please don't interpret that situation as a lack of commitment to moguls. We definitely get it. The Carinthia park project will not detract from the importance we place on mogul skiers and alpine racers. Not only are we a business that understands the different segments of our clientele, but we are also passionate skiers and snowboarders, and we want what you want.

Thanks, Meri. Great response and I'm glad you're monitoring this thread. One thing about bump skiers - we don't need to have a lot of bumped up terrain. Really just one or two runs with quality bumps and most of us could spend the better part of the day just lapping it.

These days, I feel seeding bumps initially really helps get decent lines established. Unfortunately, it seems most of the general skier population doesn't turn quickly enough to ski in good lines naturally. It's likely a result of the overgrooming of terrain in recent years at many mountains (I detect a shift in the other direction lately though). We then get into that circular situation where folks scoff at bumps because they can't ski them, which ironically is because there's not enough bumps to learn on. So I do applaud the decision to seed bumps on lower angle runs like Ego and Exhibition. That gives folks some gentler terrain on which to learn, and the mogul community should support that philosophy. As more people learn to ski bumps, there will be a greater demand for bumps overall. With that said, it still might be nice to have a top to bottom seeded run with a bit more pitch on TNF too.

The key to quality bumps is that they need to be maintained so there is some level of dedication required there. Maintenance likely includes the willingness to consistently topcoat an entire run of ugly bumps with snowmaking after a thaw/freeze event. That's exactly what little Sundown down here in CT (you want to talk about thaw/freeze issues? :-o ) does and it seems to work well. They usually only mow their bumps once or twice each season. Most of the time they get mowed, it's due to funky whales that form in the bumps more than the surface getting all that sketchy. I have to imagine fan guns which blow snow out and further, and in some cases oscillate, would be ideal to maintain a bump run with limited "whaling" of snow.

Obviously there comes a point in the season when making more snow is not cost-effective. You then enter that point in the season before the daily spring softening cycle when it's still cold and bumps might get ugly. If that's the case and the bumps are truly "dangerous" (a patroller who is whacky about bumps should be the one to determine this ), rope the run and just wait for a better day when it softens or you score some lucky late season snow. If they're skiable by a proficient ripper, be sure there's signage that indicates the sketchiness and just roll with it. Constant mowing is not conducive to good bumps, especially if allowed to reform by general skier traffic (see above). Of course, periodically, it might be necessary to smash the whole run, but certainly not in the spring...

Anyway, I definitely don't profess to know more than your mountain ops department, but these are some suggestions that I would think would satisfy the majority of mogul nuts like the ones found here. Thanks again for listening. Our numbers are small, but our voices are loud.

Back to your regularly scheduled terrain park discussion... :razz:

 

[jack97]

Back to your regularly scheduled terrain park discussion... :razz:

So when are you going to put a bump run in the terrain park?

 

[SkiDork]

wow - nice response from an actual rep of Mt Snow. I wish K would learn how to do that..

Is Emerson going to the A's next season?

 

[deadheadskier]

So when are you going to put a bump run in the terrain park?

This actually is a legit question.....kinda. I always wondered why places that seed or even places that don't see, never set up competition airs on a mogul trail. Granted, 99% of the people out there who are skiing bumps are into it for fun and not thinking about what sorta steezy maneuver they would throw in a competition. You could group me in that percentage as I haven't competed in a bump competition since 1993. However, I think it would be cool to have the airs there.

I always have wondered why they don't outside of competitions. Some places will put them in for freestyle team training purposes, but then will rope them off when the training session is done. At first a thought that maybe it is for safety purposes....but....aren't the 40+ foot gap jumps, 15 foot high half pipe walls and rib shattering iron rails found in parks a heckuva lot more dangerous than competition mogul jumps? Second I thought construction cost and maintenance, but here again, I bet the amount of snow and maintenance time required to build the booters in the terrain parks cost vastly more than competition airs.

So......how do you make everyone happy?

Have an expansive terrain park. This is what the majority of 'new schoolers' want these days, so make it grand. Snow gets this, hence the Carinthia mega park

Have at least two dedicated seeded mogul runs. Have one as a low angle 'learner' run and the other at a competition pitch complete with airs. When whether permits, all double black diamonds should remain ungroomed as well. I'm sorry, and I know ratings are only relative to the particular area at hand, but a groomed flat steep run does not constitute a double diamond.....anywhere, even Ward Hill

Have a dedicated, inexpensive to use Nastar trail.

Outside of the competition airs on the bump runs, it sounds like Snow is making an effort to do all of these things, so hats off to them. Personally, I think most all ski areas should have a focus in these arenas.

 

[drjeff]

wow - nice response from an actual rep of Mt Snow. I wish K would learn how to do that..

As a Mount Snow regular we DEFINATELY are very lucky to have such open communication with the management! And to top it off, all of them that I've met in person are actually really nice people too!

 

[Newpylong]

I think this is a really good move - after much thought.

I as well parked at Carinthia every visit - but before this year I often parked at Sundance. While the lot is smaller, you oftentimes can get much closer to the mountain than the Main Base and without the crowds. I suspect Carinthia will remain a good spot to park though.

I like the idea of having Canyon less crowded and the idea of having the parks in one area that was underutilized.

 

[jack97]

This actually is a legit question.....kinda. I always wondered why places that seed or even places that don't see, never set up competition airs on a mogul trail. Granted, 99% of the people out there who are skiing bumps are into it for fun and not thinking about what sorta steezy maneuver they would throw in a competition. You could group me in that percentage as I haven't competed in a bump competition since 1993. However, I think it would be cool to have the airs there.

I always have wondered why they don't outside of competitions. Some places will put them in for freestyle team training purposes, but then will rope them off when the training session is done. At first a thought that maybe it is for safety purposes....but....aren't the 40+ foot gap jumps, 15 foot high half pipe walls and rib shattering iron rails found in parks a heckuva lot more dangerous than competition mogul jumps? Second I thought construction cost and maintenance, but here again, I bet the amount of snow and maintenance time required to build the booters in the terrain parks cost vastly more than competition airs.

So......how do you make everyone happy?

Have an expansive terrain park. This is what the majority of 'new schoolers' want these days, so make it grand. Snow gets this, hence the Carinthia mega park

Have at least two dedicated seeded mogul runs. Have one as a low angle 'learner' run and the other at a competition pitch complete with airs. When whether permits, all double black diamonds should remain ungroomed as well. I'm sorry, and I know ratings are only relative to the particular area at hand, but a groomed flat steep run does not constitute a double diamond.....anywhere, even Ward Hill

Have a dedicated, inexpensive to use Nastar trail.

Outside of the competition airs on the bump runs, it sounds like Snow is making an effort to do all of these things, so hats off to them. Personally, I think most all ski areas should have a focus in these arenas.

Sel's choice over at Okemo, they seed a bump run along with some small kickers, that run is short since it leads into one of their terrain park.

 

[deadheadskier]

Sel's choice over at Okemo, they seed a bump run along with some small kickers, that run is short since it leads into one of their terrain park.

Very cool

I haven't skied Okemo in so many years it's worth a trip back there. In high school, they didn't seed, but you could pretty much always count on Sels for good bumps. They did a lot of top dressing back then on naturally made bumps.