Crystal open letter addressing heavy crowds

[cdskier]

edit - they do. tho maybe that happened too late for this year to be unlimited.

Stratton was essentially one of the first Alterra resorts at the time the company was formed. And Stratton not being unlimited on base is what I'm partially basing my reasoning on for SB.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

yea, but tremblant is unlimited at the base, so i dunno if there is consistent logic at play. maybe thats because there were no other local-ish options for the quebecers.

 

[thetrailboss]

https://www.crystalmountainresort.com/the-mountain/crystal-blog/an-open-letter


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

Gee, another IKON mountain dealing with crowd problems. I wonder why? Let me respond to some of their "response":

Our customers have overwhelmingly cited the Ikon Pass as the singular cause of this recent crowding phenomenon. While this of course has played a significant role, there’s a larger context.

As skiers and snowboarders, we all love a big storm. Yet as more and more of us have discovered the joy of a PNW powder day—and as word travels faster through our networks and our community—we’ve become a much bigger bunch. On the biggest weekends, our mountain roads are choked, our parking areas are now reaching capacity earlier and there are a lot more of us charged up to play in the powder. Our region too is bursting with a lot more folks who live here because of what our mountains offer. Crystal has not been immune and we’re all feeling the crush.

Once again, trot out the "snow is awesome" excuse rather than the OBVIOUS problem which is a "too good to be true" pass product that sold 65% MORE passes this year than last. OBVIOUSLY those people have to go SOMEWHERE.

These customers are substantively contributing to a greater good, and we should all collectively thank them.

Like last year, the condescending pat on the head of the loyal locals.

But we are also asking for your help. We’d like you to change how you think about skiing—four-person carpooling instead of driving solo, riding our coach buses regularly and taking advantage of our midweek and afternoon-to-night skiing option.

And passing the buck on the problem to the skiers and riders themselves. If the resorts create this amazing pass resulting in traffic and parking problems and crowding, it is not fair to step aside and then rake in the $$$ without taking responsibility for the mess they have created. To their credit here they HAVE started their own shuttle service from cities. At Solitude it was just charge the $$$ to park and put $$$ in pocket.

We will discontinue selling walk-up full day tickets at the ticket booths on weekends and holidays in order to hold skier visits to what our roads and parking infrastructure is designed to handle. will monitor this closely and make adjustments as we continue to learn how this will impact our guests and the mountain.

[...]

We will offer a finite amount of advance tickets online for weekends and holidays. But we will limit the available quantities of these day tickets based on a consideration of variables such as the snow forecast, mountain conditions, traffic, road conditions, and any other factors that contribute to people making their decision to ski on that day.

Wow. That is pretty damn severe. So if you are a visitor to the area and don't have an season pass or an IKON pass, guess what? You ain't skiing there unless you buy online in advance. But think about what EPIC and IKON are intended to do--STOP people from buying day tickets. This is taking that idea to the extreme.


This is just yet another example of the complete badlam that IKON and EPIC have created. At least here they are smart enough to offer bussing on their dime. That said, this is a WHOLLY owned Alterra resort. I will be interested to hear if independent affiliates are having crowding problems this year.

 

[abc]

yea, but tremblant is unlimited at the base, so i dunno if there is consistent logic at play. maybe thats because there were no other local-ish options for the quebecers.

I can make the argument both ways.

For Tremblant, they want to capture ALL of the Quebecois AND entice them to take a trip to other Ikon resorts outside of eastern Canada.

For Stratton, they don't want to attract too many local traffics from the NY/Boston metro area. They only want the wealthy ones.

As it is, the 5 days of Base Ikon was enough for me last year. I didn't use it all up. Stratton just isn't my kind of mountain. Nor do I want to ski there regularly, especially on holiday weekends, even if I buy the full Ikon for other reasons.

 

[thetrailboss]

it also isnt ~2 hours from a massive city.

This.

The pinch points for IKON are from ski areas that are CLOSE to major metropolitan areas. How many posts about the Utah areas have we seen complaining of crowds from IKON (other than from me )? The concept works if your customers are spread out and can go to different areas rather than crowding only a few ski areas.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i dont 'want' unlimited stratton, but it would change my calculus on early and late season skiing. i dont mind stratton in november and early december when most resorts are offering the same handful of groomers. and i can certainly make fun there in mashed potatoes season. it would take some of the strain off of my killington usage and prevent me from doing the early season ~$50 k-days, and could maybe help me avoid having to buy a k spring pass for use in late march april may.

 

[abc]

I will be interested to hear if independent affiliates are having crowding problems this year.

From what I heard, the indys ARE having crowding problems too.

 

[thetrailboss]

From what I heard, the indys ARE having crowding problems too.

I think that they should give 10 DAYS to Ikon passholders next year and see what happens [/end sarcasm] :roll:

Taking this megapass concept to the extreme.

 

[abc]

I think that they should give 10 DAYS to Ikon passholders next year and see what happens [/end sarcasm] :roll:

Taking this megapass concept to the extreme.

I have a different theory. All these crowding problem are due more to population explosion in some of the regions. Storm is just the tip of iceberg. The Cottonwoods had been having worse and worse traffic issues before Ikon push that problem over the edge. (I remember NOT able to get to Snowbird post storm some 5 years back!)

Cheap pass are a catalyst to bring more people on the slopes. But I suspect many of the skiers will be on the mountain one way or another. The baby boomers are having more time in their hands. And they're not sitting on their rocking chairs either. Cheap pass or not, there will be more people on the roads to the ski resorts.

Sorry Trailboss, you're part of the problem in my theory. You moved there some years back. (and I may become part of the problem too, as I'm considering work opportunity there)

 

[KustyTheKlown]

denver, seattle, and salt lake city are all bursting with growth. locals buy ikon passes because its a great deal. at least in those three regions, i would attribute crowding to locals more than out of town visitors. these places have always had a steady stream of out of town visitors. i haven't really skied much more out west since max/ikon became a thing. i've skied cheaper.

 

[thetrailboss]

I have a different theory. All these crowding problem are due more to population explosion in some of the regions. Storm is just the tip of iceberg.

Population growth is part of the mix, but the biggest change in the past two seasons has been this pass product.

The Cottonwoods had been having worse and worse traffic issues before Ikon push that problem over the edge. (I remember NOT able to get to Snowbird post storm some 5 years back!)

This season and last have been MUCH worse than before. I go up every weekend and I'm pretty sure you're the guy a while back that was commenting about this issue and your experience is limited to maybe one week a year. BCC was NEVER crowded, let alone complete gridlocked as it is now.

Cheap pass are a catalyst to bring more people on the slopes. But I suspect many of the skiers will be on the mountain one way or another.

In all fairness, passes at the Wasatch areas are NOT at all cheap, unless you consider $1,000 a season to be cheap. They weren't cheap in 2011 either. The big change is that folks are buying a $1,000 IKON pass that allows them access to FIVE Wasatch areas.

The baby boomers are having more time in their hands. And they're not sitting on their rocking chairs either. Cheap pass or not, there will be more people on the roads to the ski resorts.

Again, you're conflating two different things--the rise of the Mega Pass with "cheap season passes."

Sorry Trailboss, you're part of the problem in my theory. You moved there some years back. (and I may become part of the problem too, as I'm considering work opportunity there)

If I moved here last season and jumped on the IKON train, then I'd agree. I've been here now eight years and have an Alta/Bird pass, NOT an Ikon pass. Am I still someone going up there? Sure. Am I part of the population growth of the last decade? Absolutely. But I think again you're conflating season pass holders with this new megapass phenomenon. That is the issue that I think changes it all.

 

[thetrailboss]

denver, seattle, and salt lake city are all bursting with growth. locals buy ikon passes because its a great deal. at least in those three regions, i would attribute crowding to locals more than out of town visitors. these places have always had a steady stream of out of town visitors. i haven't really skied much more out west since max/ikon became a thing. i've skied cheaper.

I think that this is very true. The biggest difference is that folks are no longer buying a single resort pass and instead buying this product that gives them access to all the resorts, resulting in more crowding everywhere instead of, say, one area bearing the brunt of it.

 

[abc]

If I moved here last season, then I'd agree. But I've been here now eight years and have an Alta/Bird pass, NOT an Ikon pass. Am I still someone going up there? Sure. That's true. But I think again you're conflating season pass holders with this new megapass phenomenon.

You totally miss my point!

In the 8 years since you moved there, how many others had done the same?

If I move there next year or two, that will be after something like 5 of my former colleagues having settle there!!!

The mega pass is accelerating the problem. But the real problem is population growth. And that problem had been brewing all along and the resorts in the Cottonwoods (and their customers) had been burying their head in the sand all this time. Until Alterra took away the sand, that is.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

trailboss - does one wasatch solve the problem (assuming they get thru all the red tape)?

 

[kingslug]

And they are building a bigger airport and tearing down the old one to handle the crowds.. not many places do that!

 

[thetrailboss]

trailboss - does one wasatch solve the problem (assuming they get thru all the red tape)?

No. :lol:

Then I-80 would be a parking lot. The idea really is to give Park City skiers and riders access to BCC and LCC without driving.

 

[thetrailboss]

And they are building a bigger airport and tearing down the old one to handle the crowds.. not many places do that!

Yep.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

How about a gondola running from the base of Lcc to Alta/bird

 

[thetrailboss]

You totally miss my point!

Actually, I didn't. I did respond to that and admitted it. I had edited the comment to be clearer.

I've been here now eight years and have an Alta/Bird pass, NOT an Ikon pass. Am I still someone going up there? Sure. Am I part of the population growth of the last decade? Absolutely.

The mega pass is accelerating the problem. But the real problem is population growth. And that problem had been brewing all along and the resorts in the Cottonwoods had been burying their head in the sand all this time. Until Alterra took away the sand, that is.

Again, I think that population is part of the problem. But this megapass is the main driver of what we are seeing now. Before Ikon, folks had to commit to one area or another. They paid a premium to ski at Alta or Snowbird. I've had many a conversation with folks saying, "I don't want to do a Snowbird pass because of the canyon." And guess what? They didn't do it and went somewhere else. Now folks are more readily able to go to Snowbird without any commitment. Why commit to one when for the same price you can have ALL FOUR CC areas?

 

[kingslug]

Biggest question is how to mitigate the danger of going up LCC during a storm. That road scares the hell out of me. And it ain't getting better.....
Friend of mine spent 4 hours getting out of there a few days ago.