Crystal open letter addressing heavy crowds

[abc]

Again, I think that population is part of the problem. But this megapass is the main driver of what we are seeing now. Before Ikon, folks had to commit to one area or another. They paid a premium to ski at Alta or Snowbird. I've had many a conversation with folks saying, "I don't want to do a Snowbird pass because of the canyon." And guess what? They didn't do it and went somewhere else. Now folks are more readily able to go to Snowbird without any commitment. Why commit to one when for the same price you can have ALL FOUR CC areas?

We disagree on which of the two being the "primary" reason of the current jam on the Cottonwood roads.

I've been going to the Big Cottonwoods for the past 3 years. The roads weren't THAT MUCH worse last year. But the parking WAS! Significantly worse! Parking was itself a big contributor of the traffic when close to the resort.

Part of the reason of my avoiding Alta-bird had to do with the roads. Even without the mega pass, it would have continue to get worse. Ikon brought that breaking point quite a bit forward. But in a way, I think it's a good thing!

Now the ostrich has no place to hide its silly head.

 

[thetrailboss]

Biggest question is how to mitigate the danger of going up LCC during a storm. That road scares the hell out of me. And it ain't getting better.....

I was five cars away from being taken out by an avalanche on Sunday. Don't remind me.....

https://fox13now.com/2020/01/12/avalanche-closes-little-cottonwood-canyon/

 

[thetrailboss]

We disagree on which of the two being the "primary" reason of the current jam on the Cottonwood roads.

My comment deals with crowding at these and other IKON resorts.

I've been going to the Big Cottonwoods for the past 3 years. The roads weren't THAT MUCH worse last year. But the parking WAS! Significantly worse! Parking was itself a big contributor of the traffic when close to the resort.

Parking, yes. Big problem. Traffic is as well. IIRC you only come out once a year or so and may be out here at most a week a year. So that perspective vs. me who is up there at least weekly all season I think is not really close. I can attach multiple news articles discussing the problem, but I don't think I have to. I think it is silly to debate that but for some reason you seem to think I am not correct.

Part of the reason of my avoiding Alta-bird had to do with the roads. Even without the mega pass, it would have continue to get worse. Ikon brought that breaking point quite a bit forward. But in a way, I think it's a good thing!

I say it is both. I think the IKON is the change. So you are agreeing with me?

 

[abc]

I say it is both. I think the IKON is the change. So you are agreeing with me?

I agree with you:

Ikon brought that breaking point quite a bit forward. But in a way, I think it's a good thing!

Now the ostrich has no place to hide its silly head.

 

[abc]

I say it is both. I think the IKON is the change. So you are agreeing with me?

I agree with you:

The mega pass is accelerating the problem. But the real problem is population growth.

And that problem had been brewing all along and the resorts in the Cottonwoods (and their customers) had been burying their head in the sand all this time. Until Alterra took away the sand, that is.

Ikon brought that breaking point quite a bit forward. But in a way, I think it's a good thing!

Now the ostrich has no place to hide its silly head.

 

[abc]

you only come out once a year or so and may be out here at most a week a year.

Actually, I was out there 4 years ago, planning to stay for a month.

That WAS the plan. Getting trapped in the road in the Cottonwoods multiple times made me change my plan. I abandon that plan and spend a month in Tahoe instead. (it's a bit like jumping out of the fire into hot oil. But the saving grace of Tahoe is the many resorts don't share the same road bottleneck. So the oil was only warm but not boiling)

 

[thetrailboss]

Actually, I was out there 4 years ago, planning to stay for a month.

That WAS the plan. Getting trapped in the road in the Cottonwoods multiple times changed my plan. I abandon that plan and spend a month in Tahoe instead.

Tahoe vs. Here. That is a tough one. Tahoe is pretty nice.

 

[abc]

Tahoe vs. Here. That is a tough one. Tahoe is pretty nice.

The skiing are quite different. Some prefer one over the other. I like them both.

Tahoe can get busy too. But it's a 'mature' kind of busy, because the population growth in California has plateaued some years back. So the crowding are more or less a known quantity. Their only complain since Ikon is calling for further expanding the parking at Squaw.

In a way, the sand of Tahoe had long ago taken away by the huge population base in the SF bay area. So the ostrich had moved away (to SLC, for example).

 

[KustyTheKlown]

tahoe is also a solid 3 hours from the bay area and involves high mountain pass roads that can often be closed for weather. its not really a day trip for those folks. it would be for me if i lived in sf, but i imagine most bay area people are spending a night in trukee or south lake when they go

 

[kingslug]

I can stay for free 20 minutes from LCC..but now I might pop for a room at the Cliff. Or as my wife has deemed the way to go this trip and last..stay in Park City and ski Alta/Bird midweek. It worked out great last year and I found plenty of powder in the 8000 acres of PC/Canyons...then hit up the Bird for some really steep stuff in knee deep with minimal crowds. She hates the Cliff Lodge..so if this gets her out there I have no problem.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

we're staying 4 nights at snowbird lodge, 2 nights at an airbnb under a mile from solitude, and 2 nights in an airbnb in eden near powmow and snowbasin. i think we're pretty well situated to avoid shitshows.

 

[abc]

tahoe is also a solid 3 hours from the bay area and involves high mountain pass roads that can often be closed for weather. its not really a day trip for those folks. it would be for me if i lived in sf, but i imagine most bay area people are spending a night in trukee or south lake when they go

Tahoe is really a summer vacation destination for most Bay Area population. So winter skier traffic is really child's play.

Storms can stop traffic. But you don't get this slow crawl for hours on end thing like in the Cottonwoods.

 

[BenedictGomez]

No. :lol:

Then I-80 would be a parking lot. The idea really is to give Park City skiers and riders access to BCC and LCC without driving.

Why would ONEWasatch turn I-80 into a parking lot? If anything it should alleviate some traffic on I-80. Many (most?) PC vacationers would ski Snowbird etc... without driving. I know I would.

I think that population is part of the problem. But this megapass is the main driver of what we are seeing now.

And the population of Utah is predicted to grow about 20% in just the next 10 years.

https://gardner.utah.edu/demographics/population-projections/

 

[thetrailboss]

Why would ONEWasatch turn I-80 into a parking lot? If anything it should alleviate some traffic on I-80. Many (most?) PC vacationers would ski Snowbird etc... without driving. I know I would.

From people driving from the SLC area to PC to avoid the Canyons.

And the population of Utah is predicted to grow about 20% in just the next 10 years.

https://gardner.utah.edu/demographics/population-projections/

Yes. A major issue.

 

[kingslug]

I wanted to move their many years ago..and still do..but it has changed so much from way back then. I think BC will end up as the new destination spot for a lot of people who...hate crowds. Getting there is another story.

 

[slatham]

Traffic and parking issues more analogous to Stowe than Sugarbush. And Stowe has had issues with bad traffic jams and parking filled at 10:30 on a good but far from epic Saturday last March for one instance I witnessed. But as pointed out still very different than Crystal.

Time will tell. As I’ve speculated in the past, this crowding may benefit the independents in the end.

Oh and one other thing I’ll speculate about - the need for non-local Epic/Ikon pass holders to make a reservation prior to showing up on certain weekends/holidays.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

i also have very little sympathy for people who show up at 10:30 and are turned away from a full parking lot (your stowe example). the situation at crystal seems more extreme. but on a saturday i tend to be in the parking lot 30-60 minutes before lifts open

deer valley already makes ikon people reserve their days. we have already reserved the first saturday of our utah trip.

 

[kingslug]

Same people who show up last on the plane and wonder why no overhead storage is available

 

[Los]

Time will tell. As I’ve speculated in the past, this crowding may benefit the independents in the end.

It won't without substantial snowmaking improvements at the independents (generally speaking)...

 

[thetrailboss]

no one is debating that. we are taking issue with you saying that what is happening at crystal is the future of sugarbush. it just simply isnt for all the reasons we listed here. if anything, it will be more similar to the current situation at stowe. crystal is very uniquely situated and that compounds any ikon related crowding problems.

i also would not be at all surprised if alterra makes a move on jay and that is also unlimited next year. spreading the unlimited crowds some.

I’m pretty sure that it was reported that both Vail and Alterra looked at and passed on buying Jay.


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