How are seeded bumps made?

[jack97]

I knew that place looks familiar, that's goose!



Damn, I wish the guys at Wachusett would seed their moguls at 10th that way. Usually, WA doesn't placed the bumps in alternating patterns, makes me kind of dyslexic, then I realize it wasn't me (maybe) .

(from skine.net)

 

[tcharron]

Artificial bumps....

Why? Whats wrong with natural ones?

Because sometimes, what the mountains born with just doesn't quick fill out... :smash:

 

[Greg]

Artificial bumps....

Why? Whats wrong with natural ones?

Hey! We're talking about moguls here!

Natural used to be sweet in the old days. But these days, with all the different types of skis/boards they usually are a lot more irregular. Sometimes natural are still good though.

I'm a big supporter of seeded bumps. Most mountains ignore moguls entirely and overgroom their terrain. The majority of the general skiing public demands flat groomers after all, right? One reason for this is there is not enough ungroomed/moguled terrain out there on mellower pitches so folks can learn to ski bumps well so instead they avoid them. It's a vicious cycle.

The problem with just letting mellower pitches bump up naturally is that these same folks that aren't proficient in the bumps yet are the ones skiing in the lines. This results in big stretches of hard pack followed by a huge push pile. At best, you'll get long, sweeping, irregular moguls. Neither are good for learning to ski bumps well. These problems are especially true at areas that don't receive a lot of snowfall, mostly the smaller feeder hills in SNE where having good bump practice terrain is the most important.

The solution is to seed runs on these low angle pitches. This gives the newcomer to bumps a great place to practice. Anyone that has dedicated enough time to learning to ski moguls knows they can become addicting, once a few of the concepts "click". As more people learn to ski bumps, the demand for bump fields, seeded and natural will increase. That will make bumpers of all abilities much happier.

So I fully support seeded runs and enjoy skiing them. Typically, the bumps at Sundown aren't set up in some annoyingly perfect pattern. Lines waiver around and sometimes blow up all together. Once they get skied in or after a dump, they ski very much like naturally formed bumps. I applaud the mountains like Sundown, Okemo and Sunapee, (and formally Loon) that take the time to offer seeded bumps. I wish more mountains did this. I know the skills learned at little old Sundown that I've taken to mountains further north have resulted in me being able to ski more technical terrain with at least a basic level of competency.

 

[billski]

Sources of Modern Moguls

Sorry guys, I'm afraid you've got it all wrong.

Moguls first were discovered in the Mughal Empire in India (modern day spelling is "Mogul"), in the 16th century. After the Mughals invaded mountainous regions of Afghanistan by horseback, they noted that snowballs, when fertilized by horse manure would grow to large proportions overnight. At the time, there was no use for such snow growth.

In the early 1930s, an enterprising Indian noted that skiers were having great difficulty creating moguls on their 230cm skis. Seeing an opportunity, he resurrected the forgotten Mughal discovery and began an export venture.

Today, most ski areas secretly import Afghan snowballs and horse dung for use in creation of modern-day mogul fields. They are planted in rows, on a freshly groomed slope on a dark night with generous amounts of manure. By first light, they are fully developed. This is why you never see mogul fields being created.

I hope this clears up all the bad information floating around.

 

[jaywbigred]

Hey! We're talking about moguls here!



I'm a big supporter of seeded bumps. Most mountains ignore moguls entirely and overgroom their terrain. The majority of the general skiing public demands flat groomers after all, right? One reason for this is there is not enough ungroomed/moguled terrain out there on mellower pitches so folks can learn to ski bumps well so instead they avoid them. It's a vicious cycle.

The problem with just letting mellower pitches bump up naturally is that these same folks that aren't proficient in the bumps yet are the ones skiing in the lines. This results in big stretches of hard pack followed by a huge push pile. At best, you'll get long, sweeping, irregular moguls. Neither are good for learning to ski bumps well. These problems are especially true at areas that don't receive a lot of snowfall, mostly the smaller feeder hills in SNE where having good bump practice terrain is the most important.

The solution is to seed runs on these low angle pitches. This gives the newcomer to bumps a great place to practice. Anyone that has dedicated enough time to learning to ski moguls knows they can become addicting, once a few of the concepts "click". As more people learn to ski bumps, the demand for bump fields, seeded and natural will increase. That will make bumpers of all abilities much happier.

So I fully support seeded runs and enjoy skiing them. Typically, the bumps at Sundown aren't set up in some annoyingly perfect pattern. Lines waiver around and sometimes blow up all together. Once they get skied in or after a dump, they ski very much like naturally formed bumps. I applaud the mountains like Sundown, Okemo and Sunapee, (and formally Loon) that take the time to offer seeded bumps. I wish more mountains did this. I know the skills learned at little old Sundown that I've taken to mountains further north have resulted in me being able to ski more technical terrain with at least a basic level of competency.

AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!

If you asked for a Hallelujah I would have given you one!

Never been to Sundown or Sunapee, but I agree re: Okemo. You notice that out West, with more terrain and more snowfall, they leave bumps on a variety of pitches, so the need for seeding is obviously moot. Greg is dead on in his assesment of what needs to be done back east. God knows some of these trails cut in the 80s and 90s are wide enough, why not seed more lines on the sides of trails, so that the mogul skier can progress in pitch/bump size as he gains skill and confidence? The result would be better mogul lines everywhere!

 

[Greg]

God knows some of these trails cut in the 80s and 90s are wide enough, why not seed more lines on the sides of trails, so that the mogul skier can progress in pitch/bump size as he gains skill and confidence? The result would be better mogul lines everywhere!

+1

 

[jack97]

God knows some of these trails cut in the 80s and 90s are wide enough, why not seed more lines on the sides of trails, so that the mogul skier can progress in pitch/bump size as he gains skill and confidence? The result would be better mogul lines everywhere!

Some places may feel that they want the whole trail groomed to hold more skiers or to keep it safe since you need space to lay down a carve, that's another debate in itself. Then you have other places that leave the sides of the trails alone and let the bumps form up by skiers /riders, places like Cannon and Bretton Woods does that alot.

Only way to encourage seeded bumps or bumps left on the side is to keep on going to those places. And to spread the word.

 

[tjf67]

making bumps is labor intensive. I bet more hills would be open to the idea if people formed volunteer groups to make and mantain them
I

 

[2knees]

I like big bumps and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny

 

[deadheadskier]

The solution is to seed runs on these low angle pitches. This gives the newcomer to bumps a great place to practice. Anyone that has dedicated enough time to learning to ski moguls knows they can become addicting, once a few of the concepts "click". As more people learn to ski bumps, the demand for bump fields, seeded and natural will increase. That will make bumpers of all abilities much happier.

Agreed one thousand percent

If mountains put in a third of the effort they do on terrain parks in developing and maintaining good bump terrain, I think world peace would be within reach :lol:

Okemo catches a lot of flack in these parts, but I would love it if all areas took providing good mogul terrain as seriously as they do

 

[Greg]

If mountains put in a third of the effort they do on terrain parks in developing and maintaining good bump terrain, I think world peace would be within reach :lol:

Right. Just one, well-maintained, side to side, top to bottom seeded bump run is plenty for me. That's what Sundown does and they don't have a lot of extra real estate to spare.

 

[deadheadskier]

Right. Just one, well-maintained, side to side, top to bottom seeded bump run is plenty for me. That's what Sundown does and they don't have a lot of extra real estate to spare.

The moment I purchased my Tenney pass for next season, I emailed a suggestion that they do thr same and should call Sundown for feedback about how succesful their seeding program has been

no response, but my voice will be at least heard dammit

 

[2knees]

Agreed one thousand percent

If mountains put in a third of the effort they do on terrain parks in developing and maintaining good bump terrain, I think world peace would be within reach :lol:

Okemo catches a lot of flack in these parts, but I would love it if all areas took providing good mogul terrain as seriously as they do

terrain parks cater to the snowboarders and jibbers, the younger generation. (wow, i'm really observant huh?) From what i can see, not many kids have any interest in skiing moguls at all. Not many skiers, period, have an interest in skiing bumps. Other then the very very vocal group in here, most message boards i browse seem to have a very condescending attitude towards mogul skiing. Its just not what people want to do or talk about. Everyone is an expert powder skier, tree skier, cliff jumper and all around big mountain slayer. but not bumps, no one even cares.

 

[Greg]

terrain parks cater to the snowboarders and jibbers, the younger generation. (wow, i'm really observant huh?) From what i can see, not many kids have any interest in skiing moguls at all. Not many skiers, period, have an interest in skiing bumps. Other then the very very vocal group in here, most message boards i browse seem to have a very condescending attitude towards mogul skiing. Its just not what people want to do or talk about. Everyone is an expert powder skier, tree skier, cliff jumper and all around big mountain slayer. but not bumps, no one even cares.

Some interesting posts on the MS.net forum:

http://forums.mogulskiing.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=544
http://forums.mogulskiing.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=546

You're right on though, Pat. Shaped skis have made it easier to carve. Fat skis have made it easier to ski powder. Sure, bump skis make it skiing bumps more fun and a bit easier, but there still is no faking it in the mogul field. You just have to put in a lot of time.

We've actually made an impact at Sundown this past season, I believe. I will remain vocal about mogul skiing and encourage folks to try it. Several AZers have learned to love moguls due to the bumps at Sundown. 29 competitors at the first comp in 9 years was a pretty good turn-out as well. It should only grow from here. Perhaps the pro-mogul movement can be a viral one. Bump skiing will become cool again.

 

[jack97]

Up at Sunapee, I don't here the vocal stuff, maybe I tune it out or the wind swirling in my helmet muffs it. Or the punks see kids from the freestyle team who are years younger ripping it down. Not sure.

What I do see is more bumpers hitting the trails. Come spring for the past two season, the trails does get crowded so the word is getting out.

 

[Greg]

What I do see is more bumpers hitting the trails. Come spring for the past two season, the trails does get crowded so the word is getting out.

Sweet! At Sundown, the bumps usually see a lot of activity. It sort of sucks when a newbie poaches your line, but we deal. Without the newbs, we wouldn't have the bumps. It justs adds another element to the challenge. Plus is proves the mogul movement is working.

 

[jack97]

It sort of sucks when a newbie poaches your line, but we deal. Without the newbs, we wouldn't have the bumps. It justs adds another element to the challenge. Plus is proves the mogul movement is working.

Yep, got to deal with it in a good way. Over at Liftline (right under a chair), if a newbie stays frozen in my line, I can switch to another line and maintain my rhythm. If they make a long transverse across the field, I'll slow down and stop. Maybe it shows the guys up on the chairs that it can be done but more importantly, it shows to me I can do it.

Next season, I hope to do the same on Goose.

 

[andyzee]

As stated, I remembered seeing this on AlpineZone once before: http://forums.alpinezone.com/7288-m...ow-how-resorts-do.html?highlight=seeded+bumps

 

[ta&idaho]

The problem with just letting mellower pitches bump up naturally is that these same folks that aren't proficient in the bumps yet are the ones skiing in the lines. This results in big stretches of hard pack followed by a huge push pile. At best, you'll get long, sweeping, irregular moguls. Neither are good for learning to ski bumps well. These problems are especially true at areas that don't receive a lot of snowfall, mostly the smaller feeder hills in SNE where having good bump practice terrain is the most important.

The solution is to seed runs on these low angle pitches. This gives the newcomer to bumps a great place to practice. Anyone that has dedicated enough time to learning to ski moguls knows they can become addicting, once a few of the concepts "click". As more people learn to ski bumps, the demand for bump fields, seeded and natural will increase. That will make bumpers of all abilities much happier.

So I fully support seeded runs and enjoy skiing them. Typically, the bumps at Sundown aren't set up in some annoyingly perfect pattern. Lines waiver around and sometimes blow up all together. Once they get skied in or after a dump, they ski very much like naturally formed bumps. I applaud the mountains like Sundown, Okemo and Sunapee, (and formally Loon) that take the time to offer seeded bumps. I wish more mountains did this. I know the skills learned at little old Sundown that I've taken to mountains further north have resulted in me being able to ski more technical terrain with at least a basic level of competency.

Just out of curiosity, what portion of the work is done by the seeding process and what portion of the work is done by you guys skiing those bumps several nights a week?

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is whether a committed group of locals could lap a line on an ideally angled run on a weekday/night and then beg the groomers not to mow that portion of the run, kind of like the trail building that mtn. biking clubs do.

 

[Greg]

Just out of curiosity, what portion of the work is done by the seeding process and what portion of the work is done by you guys skiing those bumps several nights a week?

Well, they looks like this soon after they are seeded:

:-o

The get snowmaking at night and with more skier traffic, they quickly take shape. The next night the bumps in the above pic looked like this:

Still gnarley, but better. Some lines ski better than others. Of course, when Temptor was seeded this year, we scored a 12" powder dump on top of them a day and a half later. That resulted in pretty rad bumps right away: