How many skis in your quiver?

[Glenn]

i have more ski jackets (4) than pairs of skis (1).

My wife has about a 12/2 jacket to ski ratio right now....

 

[Cheese]

conditions or fashion statement.

1. northface shell. my fav, good to mid-20s
2. costco special softshell - good down to 10-ish as long as it isn't snowing or excessively windy
3. old columbia titanium - snow or extreme cold or windy
4. Victorinox Swiss Army jacket - same conditions as the columbia but it is red and i'm not usually a red kind of guy. occasionally when i'm feeling flamboyant i'll put it on.


;-)

Where were you during the packing thread where I took heat for suggesting bringing a suitcase on a ski trip?

 

[gmcunni]

Where were you during the packing thread where I took heat for suggesting bringing a suitcase on a ski trip?

i would wear my shell under my columbia on the plane for a trip out west, no need for extra bags

 

[Rambo]

6 pairs: Volant Super 198cm. 3 pair - Volant Power Karves 193cm. Dynastar Intuitiv 74 188cm. K2 Axis XP 174cm.

 

[thinnmann]

I don't know if you're yanking my chain or seriously think that the R# of a ski indicates a turning radius. In case you've been misled into believing it's the turning radius, lets take a look at how far from the truth this actually is:

R=21m

If a turn is a 180* change in direction, diameter is probably a better measure of how much distance the turn will take. The radius spec on your ski is 21m so the diameter is 42m. Since we're in the US, people tend to calculate things in feet so I'll translate that you're saying the distance it will take you to turn from left to right is 137.8 feet per turn. A GS ski is a slow turning ski, but not so slow that you can't even fit a turn in between the width of the trail. 21m is obviously not the turning radius.

Now let's tighten up that turning radius to a slalom ski:

R=16m

Again the diameter is 32m for a 180* change in direction so the distance for a single turn if 16m was the turning radius would work out to 105 feet. Even at this reduced turning radius a skier couldn't stay inside the width of a trail. 16m is not the turning radius.

If you look at a ski flat on the floor, an arc forms from the middle of the ski to the tip. If you continue this arc for 360* it forms an imaginary circle. The radius of this imaginary circle is the side-cut radius and that would be the R# spec for your ski. It's just a measure of the side-cut.

Woah. And I thought I would never have to use geometry after high school....

That is a great treatise, and should probably be included in an open ended word problem on the New Hampshire High School Graduation Test.

But I still think it is the same thing - at least in the way my brain thinks about it - and you even confirm it it in your last paragraph. If the sidecut radius defines the imaginary full circle, then any turn the ski takes, if it was laying flat on that edge in a perfect world, has that radius until the user skids the ski or changes edges.

I think your brain uses your given "a turn is a 180* change in direction". And how many 180 degree turns do we make when we are free skiing? Not many.

I see that people smarter than me can over-think this, and conclude, "A combination of the sidecut, edge angulation and reversed camber determine the radius of the turn. Skis with a large sidecut allow the skier to deeply reverse camber the ski, while skis with a small side cut cannot reverse camber as much. The combination of a large sidecut and a deep reverse camber creates short radius carved turns."

However, I posit that, for the sake of Joe Skier (i.e. me and most of us that don't have any sponsors paying us for what it says on our ski topsheets) comparing skis for their predicted performance, without having to be FIS-stupid-picky, it is similar enough to be the same thing.

 

[thinnmann]

6 pairs: Volant Super 198cm. 3 pair - Volant Power Karves 193cm. Dynastar Intuitiv 74 188cm. K2 Axis XP 174cm.

Holy crap! I think I have beaten my Volant addiction, Rambo. You obviously need to admit you have a problem, then enroll in a 12-Turn program with VA*.


*Volanters Anonymous. Meetings on Wednesday nights at the Our Lady of The Mountain. Bring Your Own Boots.

 

[tt431]

Where is the 20+ option? This poll fails.

Where is the 0 option? This poll seriously discriminates.:uzi:

 

[Cheese]

I see that people smarter than me can over-think this, and conclude, "A combination of the sidecut, edge angulation and reversed camber determine the radius of the turn. Skis with a large sidecut allow the skier to deeply reverse camber the ski, while skis with a small side cut cannot reverse camber as much. The combination of a large sidecut and a deep reverse camber creates short radius carved turns."

However, I posit that, for the sake of Joe Skier (i.e. me and most of us that don't have any sponsors paying us for what it says on our ski topsheets) comparing skis for their predicted performance, without having to be FIS-stupid-picky, it is similar enough to be the same thing.

I'm certainly in a different camp because after posting I did a bit of Internet searching myself and see the term "turning radius" and "side-cut" used to define the same thing quite often. I'm mistaken. To me, a soft ski flex gives me a smaller turning radius and a stiff ski flex gives me a larger turning radius. Side-cut is just a crutch to help flex the ski for me.

I consider turning radius to be like that of a car. Eventually the steering stops are hit and that's the sharpest turn the car will ever make without skidding the rear. I'm sure you can already guess that this is translating into carving turns.

While carving the minimum turning radius is extremely important as anything smaller causes a skid. Most skid turners are impatient or too afraid to accept the increase in speed while they wait for the ski to define it's turning radius and set up a good carve. It's this rush to get the tips facing in the opposite direction that causes/requires the skid. In many lessons I lay down a carved rut and require the students to follow the rut rather than exceeding the turning radius of their skis. The radius of the rut I leave is closer 3m than 16m.

I think your brain uses your given "a turn is a 180* change in direction". And how many 180 degree turns do we make when we are free skiing? Not many.

While accelerating, the first few turns will be less than 180*. After that, controlling speed while carving requires turns of 180* or more. The only way to control speed while carving is heading perpendicular to or up the slope which would be at or beyond 180*. Skidding to bleed speed is not carving. So to answer your question about how many, I'd venture to guess that it's about 0% on green, 20% on blue and greater than 50% on black terrain.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Are Volants really that good?

They look all shiney and metallic... I have never skiied on them.

My father skis on Volants and he can go pretty fast for an old man

 

[jrmagic]

I don't know if you're yanking my chain or seriously think that the R# of a ski indicates a turning radius. In case you've been misled into believing it's the turning radius, lets take a look at how far from the truth this actually is:

R=21m

If a turn is a 180* change in direction, diameter is probably a better measure of how much distance the turn will take. The radius spec on your ski is 21m so the diameter is 42m. Since we're in the US, people tend to calculate things in feet so I'll translate that you're saying the distance it will take you to turn from left to right is 137.8 feet per turn. A GS ski is a slow turning ski, but not so slow that you can't even fit a turn in between the width of the trail. 21m is obviously not the turning radius.

Now let's tighten up that turning radius to a slalom ski:

R=16m

Again the diameter is 32m for a 180* change in direction so the distance for a single turn if 16m was the turning radius would work out to 105 feet. Even at this reduced turning radius a skier couldn't stay inside the width of a trail. 16m is not the turning radius.

If you look at a ski flat on the floor, an arc forms from the middle of the ski to the tip. If you continue this arc for 360* it forms an imaginary circle. The radius of this imaginary circle is the side-cut radius and that would be the R# spec for your ski. It's just a measure of the side-cut.

Another thing not being considered is the amount of flex applied by the skier. The more the ski is pressured and therefore bent will reduce the radius, diameter or arc of the turn.

 

[drjeff]

My wife has about a 12/2 jacket to ski ratio right now....

It's that LOW of a ratio?? I would have put it somewhere in the 18-20/2 ratio!

And Glenn, we should NEVER leave our wives alone in a ski shop, even if they say that you and I can go wait in a nearby bar and have a few beers, as without a doubt their coat to ski ratios would easily increase by a few! :lol:

 

[jrmagic]

It's that LOW of a ratio?? I would have put it somewhere in the 18-20/2 ratio!

And Glenn, we should NEVER leave our wives alone in a ski shop, even if they say that you and I can go wait in a nearby bar and have a few beers, as without a doubt their coat to ski ratios would easily increase by a few! :lol:

Even worse, your available funds for beer will shrink:smash:

 

[gmcunni]

6 pairs: Volant Super 198cm. 3 pair - Volant Power Karves 193cm. Dynastar Intuitiv 74 188cm. K2 Axis XP 174cm.

the 2nd and 3rd from left appear to be same length and very similar dimensions, what's the diff between them?

 

[riverc0il]

My quiver is bigger than yours is.

I have five pairs that I will use at least once per season. Two of those may only get used once or twice, early and late season.

 

[thinnmann]

Are Volants really that good?

They look all shiney and metallic... I have never skiied on them.

My father skis on Volants and he can go pretty fast for an old man

Borrow your dad's one day and check them out.
Hopefully they are the ones that were made in Colorado, not those made by Atomic. You can tell the difference. The Colorado made ones have a full cap of stainless steel. The Atomic made ones have a flat piece of stainless steel sandwich on top, and fiberglass edges.
Volant had the torsional rigidity thing figured out before other skis. It was accomplished by the steel cap.
They are a little damp, which is why they are fast.

I had 3 pairs of them at one point. My first were Zip Karv 155's. I skied them, then my wife skied them, then my son skied them. My second pair were Volant Power with demo bindings, a mid-fat with no graphics, just silver. Still have those; still ski them a few times per winter. My third pair were Zip Karv 170's; but didn't ski them much. Sold both pairs of Zip Karves last year.

My wife still has a pair of Vertex 66. She moved some Dynastar's this winter, but might still ski those occasionally for their super hold on ice.

 

[Cheese]

Another thing not being considered is the amount of flex applied by the skier. The more the ski is pressured and therefore bent will reduce the radius, diameter or arc of the turn.

Exactly. That's why I consider the stiffness of a ski to be more important in defining what I would call the turning radius. thinnmann is correct though that throughout the industry the manufacturers freely interchange the terms side-cut radius and turning radius as the same.

 

[Smellytele]

Still try to figure out why some one (not a pro) would need 6 pairs of the same ski at the same size. I think though I belong in the non tech thread not this one.

 

[Hawkshot99]

Still try to figure out why some one (not a pro) would need 6 pairs of the same ski at the same size. I think though I belong in the non tech thread not this one.

I have not seen anybody on here say they have 6 pairs of the same ski.

I have 4 pairs that I own, and use regularly, plus many more skis in my demo fleet, that I regularly take out. My personnel skis do not overlap in their intended use, so it is pretty easy for me to choose what ski I use.

Scott P4- 108mm wide so it is used for powder days. Also has a Marker Duke so it is my touring ski.
Blizzard Bushwacker- My everyday soft snow or tree ski.
Atomic GS Race stock- Used for race leagues.
Atomic D2 82- Very similar to the race ski, but a bit wider, and I dont have to worry about hurting my race skis. Awesome groomer skis!

 

[skidbump]

172 Dynastar 8000- for first few days of season and hard snow "glare ice"
174 PMGear bro's "99 under foot" everyday except powder and thin spring cover
167 K2 phat luvs "104 under foot" for powder days and real soft snow
167 K2 phat luvs "99 under foot" for spring thin cover and when i decide to wear my pink outfit

 

[Smellytele]

I have not seen anybody on here say they have 6 pairs of the same ski.

I have 4 pairs that I own, and use regularly, plus many more skis in my demo fleet, that I regularly take out. My personnel skis do not overlap in their intended use, so it is pretty easy for me to choose what ski I use.

Scott P4- 108mm wide so it is used for powder days. Also has a Marker Duke so it is my touring ski.
Blizzard Bushwacker- My everyday soft snow or tree ski.
Atomic GS Race stock- Used for race leagues.
Atomic D2 82- Very similar to the race ski, but a bit wider, and I dont have to worry about hurting my race skis. Awesome groomer skis!

Maybe I missed read Rambo's post but"6 pairs: Volant Super 198cm. 3 pair - Volant Power Karves 193cm. Dynastar Intuitiv 74 188cm. K2 Axis XP 174cm."
Maybe it was 3 pairs of the same ski but still 3 of the same?