Is 4WD/AWD a neccesity on your ski vehicle?

[mondeo]

tires are the key...would you run a marathon in flip flops?

I had a dream Saturday night where I skied a zipper line in flip flops.

No skis, just flip flops. Had poles, though.

 

[bobbutts]

I'd take a FWD with snows over a AWD with stock tires any day of the week....keep in mind that most AWD are really FWD cars that will send some power to the rear slipping wheel if needed....the only true AWD are Audi and Subi (my volvo xc70 is pseudo awd)

A buddy of mine lives in the mtns of Austria, drives a RWD BMW with snows and stick shift...swears by it, says he has more control with the stick (power) ...... IMOP, AWD and 4x4 is marketing, hype and fear branded into us by the advertizers...

IMO your opinion is way off.. AWD is vastly superior to 2wd for snow driving (given equal vehicles and tires) in the real world, not just marketing. Forget about everything else and compare acceleration, it's no contest. Then think about situations where being able to accelerate would be helpful.
If you're willing to have the extra weight and cost of an AWD vehicle it will perform better in the snow vs. 2wd every time.

 

[mondeo]

I'd take a FWD with snows over a AWD with stock tires any day of the week....keep in mind that most AWD are really FWD cars that will send some power to the rear slipping wheel if needed....the only true AWD are Audi and Subi (my volvo xc70 is pseudo awd)

"True" AWD is marketing BS from Audi and Subaru. If 4 wheels are driven, it's AWD. Mechanicals may be different, but even within a brand the implementation changes between models:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-wheel_drive#4WD_and_AWD_systems_by_design_type

Even under Camp's definition of true AWD, notice how few are under the no locking center diff category. If you say clutches aren't real AWD, then most Subies don't fit the mold either. But the reality is that any AWD gives you about the same benefit; sensor driven AWD is quick enough that you'll never notice the difference. Even with slip and grip, the only downside is that you lose some of the power to braking, but if you're slipping you don't need that much power anyways.

IMO your opinion is way off.. AWD is vastly superior to 2wd for snow driving (given equal vehicles and tires) in the real world, not just marketing. Forget about everything else and compare acceleration, it's no contest. Then think about situations where being able to accelerate would be helpful.
If you're willing to have the extra weight and cost of an AWD vehicle it will perform better in the snow vs. 2wd every time.

AWD vs FWD, yeah I'll take AWD. But that wasn't his point. AWD with all-seasons < FWD with snows. Of course AWD with snows takes the cake, especially with limited slip diffs.

 

[SkiDork]

its a limited slip differential...

 

[AdironRider]

I went to SLU in Canton, graduated in 07. Were just above the lake effect snows really. Drive 10 miles down to Colton to the old Snow Bowl and its a different story. It is bitterly cold and grey all winter long. I always kinda liked it though.

That being said, Ill take 4wd any day of the week. My girlfriend has a Subaru Forester and Ive had to dig that thing out more than Id like to remember after a foot overnight. With my truck Ive never once had a problem, and this is with the snow we get in Jackson. Even with decent ground clearance, the Subaru still gets stuck in snowbanks and unplowed parking lots. My 4x4 just blasts right on through. Sure the tires play a role as well, but anyone who has sat at a stop on a steep hill, with 2wd in the snow can attest, they wished they had 4wd or AWD.

I think that once the car is in motion, AWD is probably better, especially given todays technology, but I like the advantages 4wd provides when the going gets tough. I need that capability, use it all the time in the winter.

 

[Glenn]

I went to SLU in Canton, graduated in 07. Were just above the lake effect snows really. Drive 10 miles down to Colton to the old Snow Bowl and its a different story. It is bitterly cold and grey all winter long. I always kinda liked it though.

That being said, Ill take 4wd any day of the week. My girlfriend has a Subaru Forester and Ive had to dig that thing out more than Id like to remember after a foot overnight. With my truck Ive never once had a problem, and this is with the snow we get in Jackson. Even with decent ground clearance, the Subaru still gets stuck in snowbanks and unplowed parking lots. My 4x4 just blasts right on through. Sure the tires play a role as well, but anyone who has sat at a stop on a steep hill, with 2wd in the snow can attest, they wished they had 4wd or AWD.

I think that once the car is in motion, AWD is probably better, especially given todays technology, but I like the advantages 4wd provides when the going gets tough. I need that capability, use it all the time in the winter.

Ground clearance FTW! 8)

 

[SKIQUATTRO]

may not be 100% necessary, but if it increases saftey, then i'm all for it...

Ski Vechicle: 08 Suburban with dedicated rims and snows (i keep in auto mode, not 2wd)
Audi A4 Quattro: very good all seasons (Conti Xtreme Contacts) never an issue.

 

[billski]

A little education never hurt. :roll:

 

[Smellytele]

It didn't help the Range Rover I saw on its roof yesterday but that was black ice.

 

[billski]

. What is the parking lot and access like at your mountain?

Three places come to mind

FWD to Bolton is interesting

Sherburne to Mid Burke uphill in FWD is also interesting

1/4 mile on 50% grade to my bud's house on snowpack. FWD impossible. AWD with all seasons (eek!) and 4WD is OK. Not all my vehicles.

 

[Smellytele]

4WD or AWD is really good for getting started at the icy intersections, or more traction when accelerating. Braking is the same on all vehicles, although downshifting has to be an improvement on 4WD. Traveling on the highway, I turn off the 4 WD, even in snow storms. Where I find it helps best is at places like the Barker Lodge at the River. It's a steady uphill grade, and as you near the parking lot, people slow down to take their parking spaces and avoid people. That is when 4WD is real nice. What is the parking lot and access like at your mountain?

With my pickup I keep it in 4wd on the highway because if I need to accelerate and it isn't in 4WD the backend can be loose.

 

[hammer]

With my pickup I keep it in 4wd on the highway because if I need to accelerate and it isn't in 4WD the backend can be loose.

On dry pavement? Doesn't using full time 4WD in that case mess up your tires?

 

[Smellytele]

On dry pavement? Doesn't using full time 4WD in that case mess up your tires?

In snow

 

[kingslug]

Yes. Jeep Cherokee with AT tires means I NEVER get stuck..pulled out of an unplowed hotel parking lot with 4 feet of snow covering it at Hunter during there storm of the century..everyone else was pretty much buried..the tires do make 50% of the difference. My girlfriends AWD toyota couldn't make it up the hill, all season tires where to blame, this was with just a little snow on it..The Forrester inn at Hunter has a nasty hill to get to it..

 

[Boardguy]

I have a four hour plus one way commute to my ski spot. I make the trip pretty much every weekend from Christmas thru the end of March. In the 14 seasons we gone up there I have used three different SUVs. Two Suburbans, the first did not have AWD and was OK in FWD if needed. The next was a newer Suburban that had both AWD and straight FWD. I liked the AWD and that was the first vehicle that I have owned with AWD. I presently have a Jeep grand cherokee with AWD and that is the best highway commuter yet for me. We leave around 6:30 on Friday nights and head north. I like the idea of AWD and as I said the Jeep has been very nice. While I enjoyed the suburbans I like the handling of the Jeep better, the smaller size may be part of that. The downside is a two wheel drive or two wheel drive with selectable FWD would get better mileage but I like the security of the AWD and as long as I can afford it I'll stick with it. Not necessary but I find it very nice to have.

 

[Geoff]

Drove my parent's Maverik in college, till some dope coming at me tried to stop on ice and totaled my wheels. Never saw a Maverick with no rust. My door panels doubled as wings!

Time to hijack the thread...

I got really good with a rivet gun and a ball peen hammer. In my 1972 Maverick, the drivers floor was a stolen Quaker State motor oil sign. The trunk was a Thickly Settled sign. I used tin ducting for most of my other repairs. Both rear wheel wells, the bottom of both doors, and the front quarter panels were all patched with that. Some tiger hair, some Bondo, primer, and off to the local paint shop for the $200.00 spray with the original diarrhea brown paint.

Vermont had a "no rust hole larger than a dime" inspection policy. I had a summer bodywork project every year I owned the car.

 

[thinnmann]

Yea - It Is The Tires.

These are awesome: http://www.carreview.com/cat/parts/tires/hankook/winter-ipike-w409-tire/prd_369924_1577crx.aspx

Will get you through anything. Four on my 2010 Mazda3 (skis inside the hatch for better gas mileage) got me all over NYS and NH with my racing daughter last winter with nary a slip. Regularly passed AWD vehicles while driving in a snow covered left lane while they were struggling in a plowed lane.

In snow, I trusted the Mazda3 last winter more than my AWD 2005 Honda Pilot with the stock M+S Goodyear Integrity tires that had a large bit of mileage on them. But I just put four Cooper Discoverer CTS's on it' and like everyone else, am waiting for the snow to see how they go.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

These are awesome: http://www.carreview.com/cat/parts/tires/hankook/winter-ipike-w409-tire/prd_369924_1577crx.aspx

Will get you through anything. Four on my 2010 Mazda3 (skis inside the hatch for better gas mileage) got me all over NYS and NH with my racing daughter last winter with nary a slip. Regularly passed AWD vehicles while driving in a snow covered left lane while they were struggling in a plowed lane.

In snow, I trusted the Mazda3 last winter more than my AWD 2005 Honda Pilot with the stock M+S Goodyear Integrity tires that had a large bit of mileage on them. But I just put four Cooper Discoverer CTS's on it' and like everyone else, am waiting for the snow to see how they go.

Just because one owns a AWD vehicle doesn't mean they are just going to go a buck twenty. Many people realize that with or without AWD you must still drive like a responsible adult. Your just as likely to see a 4WD or AWD car off the road on I89, I93, I91 as you are a FWD car....the drive of a car doesn't cure stupid or bad luck. Also for example, if you are driving on a plowed section of a road most likely your AWD isn't kicking on so the person drving the FWD and AWD are doing the exact same thing........driving with two wheels doing all the work. Our AWD very rarely comes on even in the snow. I find it most helpful when driving to Killington and going up to Bear in the slick conditions or heading up to Pico through Sherburne Pass. Other then that my FWD Toyota Matrix with studded snow tires gets it done.

 

[Riverskier]

Never owned AWD or 4WD, and never had snow tires until this Winter. Finally pulled the trigger on the tires and holy crap! I will never go back to all seasons. The traction I have gotten on ice and a foot of unplowed snow is just amazing. I am sure AWD or 4WD with snows is much better, but right now I feel like I am driving a tank, and for my purposes anything more is unnecessary.

 

[Smellytele]

Never owned AWD or 4WD, and never had snow tires until this Winter. Finally pulled the trigger on the tires and holy crap! I will never go back to all seasons. The traction I have gotten on ice and a foot of unplowed snow is just amazing. I am sure AWD or 4WD with snows is much better, but right now I feel like I am driving a tank, and for my purposes anything more is unnecessary.

So it is your fault we don't have any snow?