Is 4WD/AWD a neccesity on your ski vehicle?

[Riverskier]

So it is your fault we don't have any snow?

My friend also got a seasonal rental at Sugarloaf for the first time ever, so between the two of us I would say you are right on.

 

[BigJay]

These are awesome: http://www.carreview.com/cat/parts/tires/hankook/winter-ipike-w409-tire/prd_369924_1577crx.aspx

Will get you through anything. Four on my 2010 Mazda3 (skis inside the hatch for better gas mileage) got me all over NYS and NH with my racing daughter last winter with nary a slip. Regularly passed AWD vehicles while driving in a snow covered left lane while they were struggling in a plowed lane.

In snow, I trusted the Mazda3 last winter more than my AWD 2005 Honda Pilot with the stock M+S Goodyear Integrity tires that had a large bit of mileage on them. But I just put four Cooper Discoverer CTS's on it' and like everyone else, am waiting for the snow to see how they go.

That's because the Mazda3 is a great car for winter use!

I've had 2 Mazda3 and loved them... but wanted an AWD. Now that we have a Suby, i don't drive any faster on the highway, i don't drive any faster during winter storms... but i can manage going much slower on long climbs!

(And yeah, winter tires are a must when you need to drive in snow... and when you go skiing, you need snow... so... 1+1... Last week, you could tell those who come from the south... going 20mph on 242... barely making it up the pass... going down and almost not making the turns without slidding around...and we don't even have a real winter this year...)

 

[Cornhead]

Never owned AWD or 4WD, and never had snow tires until this Winter. Finally pulled the trigger on the tires and holy crap! I will never go back to all seasons. The traction I have gotten on ice and a foot of unplowed snow is just amazing. I am sure AWD or 4WD with snows is much better, but right now I feel like I am driving a tank, and for my purposes anything more is unnecessary.

I prefer to call them "No Season Radials", they suck at everything. Today's snows are so quiet, I don't mind slapping them on at all. I have low profile performance Summer tires, so the snows are much better at handling the shitty roads your likely to encounter in the ski season, snow covered, or not. It was weird buying a new car and having to buy a set of tires and rims for it, it came with Summer tires. It was either that, or switch to No Seasons. AWD with no seasons is probably adequate. I have AWD with Blizzaks, ground clearance is my only issue. It is fun to drive in the snow. FWD+ snows= all that's needed. Now if it would only friggin snow!

 

[BenedictGomez]

This is a major generalization and depends on models to an extent, but generally speaking:

4WD with Snow tires > 4WD with All-Seasons > 2WD with Snow tires > 2WD with All-Seasons

And generally speaking the people who say 2WD with snow tires is better than a 4WD with all-seasons are people that either dont own a 4WD, or havent yet gotten "stuck" in a 2WD with snow tires in a situation where drive power and not traction is the culprit.

 

[HowieT2]

This is a major generalization and depends on models to an extent, but generally speaking:

4WD with Snow tires > 4WD with All-Seasons > 2WD with Snow tires > 2WD with All-Seasons

And generally speaking the people who say 2WD with snow tires is better than a 4WD with all-seasons are people that either dont own a 4WD, or havent yet gotten "stuck" in a 2WD with snow tires in a situation where drive power and not traction is the culprit.

I was just having this debate with some non skier friends (I know I shouldnt have any of those). but there is more to driving in snow/ice than getting stuck. clearly awd/4wd is most important in getting the vehicle moving from a stop. having snow tires on a 2wd vehicle still only gives you 2 drive wheels and if those wheels arent getting traction, you're not going anywhere. but when the vehicle is moving, which is most of the time, traction is most important to keeping the vehicle under control, and snow tires greatly improve traction over all seasons. I'd rather get stuck than lose control at speed or be unable to stop upon braking.

and fwiw-I think most non skier suburbanites would be better off with snow tires than awd for their limited snow/ice driving. cheaper and better fuel economy. could you imagine all the gas we would save if these people switched from awd to snow tires in the winter. good for the economy and the environment.

 

[billski]

As I see it, there are two applications for snow tires.

First, for the rare instances where we have the privilege of driving (or getting stuck) in loose snow. The tread and narrower tire the name of the game.

Second, for slippery conditions: ice, super-hard pack/turning to ice, which unfortunately is the majority of the road-bound cases. The softer rubber is the name of the game.

I notice in this thread a disconnect between what people are debating.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Keeping your vehicle on the road and out of the ditch has more to do with the driving than if you have 4WD or AWD IMHO.

 

[AdironRider]

Anyone who thinks 2wd with snows is better than any 4x4 or awd regardless of tires is completely wrong.

Snow tires are not the end all be all, a good driver is, period.

 

[ScottySkis]

Well my little tercel i had a 97 and drove through many snow storms in 2000 season never had a problem, but my 96 accord hates the snow, both are front wheel drive only

 

[legalskier]

I have a Forester- it's gotten me out of some difficult situations.
Downside is the gas mileage isn't quite as good as 2wd. Overall, very happy with it.

 

[Cannonball]

simple answer: yes.

I've always only ever owned pickups. In 1993 I bought my first 2wd for the gas mileage. I got stuck that winter....I sold it. It was 4WD before that and It's been 4WD since. Never understood why they don't make FWD trucks. I'd consider one.

But my truck(s) are only sort-of a ski vehicle since I usually take my wife's ride. Which have always been AWD (subaru, CRV, etc). She won't consider non-AWD and I agree.

We're having a hard time figuring out a new vehicle for her. The CRV is at 120K so we're starting to look around at new rides. Love the CRV but can't stand the new body style. Does Honda HATE dogs??? Forester seems like the only thing that comes close to our criteria: AWD, dog space, gear space, mileage (for AWD), reliability, cost. Maybe that's a subject for a different thread.

 

[riverc0il]

We're having a hard time figuring out a new vehicle for her. The CRV is at 120K so we're starting to look around at new rides. Love the CRV but can't stand the new body style. Does Honda HATE dogs??? Forester seems like the only thing that comes close to our criteria: AWD, dog space, gear space, mileage (for AWD), reliability, cost. Maybe that's a subject for a different thread.

New Impreza gets 36 highway but not as much space as the Forester. I started a thread on the new Impreza a while back because it seemed exciting that an AWD vehicle was finally going to have respectable MPG. Ultimately, I stayed with FWD and snows with my SportWagen TDI. Never have had a problem with FWD and snows.

 

[Cannonball]

New Impreza gets 36 highway but not as much space as the Forester. I started a thread on the new Impreza a while back because it seemed exciting that an AWD vehicle was finally going to have respectable MPG. Ultimately, I stayed with FWD and snows with my SportWagen TDI. Never have had a problem with FWD and snows.

Yup. I've followed that Impreza thread. Everything you listed in terms of frustration with fuel economy in this class is exactly what we struggle with. The Impreza is just a bit too small for us (it's close). The SportWagen TDI has been on the table. Haven't quite sold her on it.

 

[bvibert]

I was just having this debate with some non skier friends (I know I shouldnt have any of those). but there is more to driving in snow/ice than getting stuck. clearly awd/4wd is most important in getting the vehicle moving from a stop. having snow tires on a 2wd vehicle still only gives you 2 drive wheels and if those wheels arent getting traction, you're not going anywhere. but when the vehicle is moving, which is most of the time, traction is most important to keeping the vehicle under control, and snow tires greatly improve traction over all seasons. I'd rather get stuck than lose control at speed or be unable to stop upon braking.

and fwiw-I think most non skier suburbanites would be better off with snow tires than awd for their limited snow/ice driving. cheaper and better fuel economy. could you imagine all the gas we would save if these people switched from awd to snow tires in the winter. good for the economy and the environment.

This is completely right. 4WD/AWD may keep you from getting stuck, but once you're moving traction is the key.

Anyone who thinks 2wd with snows is better than any 4x4 or awd regardless of tires is completely wrong.

Snow tires are not the end all be all, a good driver is, period.

The driver is the most important component without a doubt, which is most of the problem. People don't know how to drive in normal conditions let alone snow. That said, you're flat out wrong if you think that a 4WD with all season tires is better than a FWD with snows in 90% of the winter weather driving situations. Snow tires offer much better traction than all seasons in snow. Period.

 

[SkiDork]

That said, you're flat out wrong if you think that a 4WD with all season tires is better than a FWD with snows in 90% of the winter weather driving situations. Snow tires offer much better traction than all seasons in snow. Period.

I'd love to see a mythbusters do this comparison, as I tend to disagree. Also, weight is a huge consideration. When I used to run all seasons on the Suburban, I never really had much trouble in snow. Now I have 4 snows on there which helps a bit more but I think the weight is a bigger factor

 

[bvibert]

Certainly weight plays a factor, but not all 4WD/AWD vehicles are heavy.

 

[hammer]

The great debate going on in our household is not whether it would be better to get winter tires (it would be), but whether AWD with decent all-seasons is good enough for most situations. I was about ready to pull the trigger but the whole hassle with the TPMS sensors drives the cost up or requires twice-annual remounts, which I still have concerns about doing from a tire and wheel condition standpoint.

I hate analysis paralysis...

 

[AndyEich]

Anyone who thinks 2wd with snows is better than any 4x4 or awd regardless of tires is completely wrong.

Snow tires are not the end all be all, a good driver is, period.

This comment is incorrect. 4WD is better to get you going--no doubt, but snow tires are way more beneficial for stopping and keeping you on the road.

If you need to get up an un-plowed driveway, I'd take 4WD. But most people should be more concerned about staying safe at speed, in slippery conditions. For that, snow tires win every time.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

I have a 2010 Suburu Outback w/all seasons and have never thought once about putting snowtires on it. The thing bombs through deep snow, runs great on icy conditions, has great start/stop and has really good clearance. When we first got it the first thing I noticed was how high it sits. Park next to nearly any mid size SUV and full size SUV and it sits just as high (or seems too). On top of that we get between 28 and 34 MPG depending on travel route. We actually looked at a 2wd Matrix before getting the Suburu, but the price wasn't much different and gas mileage wasn't enough to lean us the other way. Also, not sure why, but the storage space in the newer matrix have limited space. I am guessing they added more rear seat leg room or just shortened the car. All of that, Toyota seems to be sucking in the reliablity department, lots of problems and over priced IMHO.

 

[WWF-VT]

I have a 2010 Suburu Outback w/all seasons and have never thought once about putting snowtires on it.

We have a 2007 Outback that we drive to VT most every weekend in the winter and see a dramattic difference between all seasons and snow tires. Snow tires go on in early December and stay on through mud season in the spring.