Permanent Industry Changes in the Post-COVID World

[boston_e]

Umm, I said Dr Malone was A principle investigator, not was THE principle investigator..

The reality is that it was a group of researchers/clinicians from numerous organizations over many years who were involved with mRNA technology development

Fine but the first line of his website: “as the original inventor of mRNA and DNA vaccines”…. He starts off as not credible.

 

[johnl87]

"a" inventor or "the" inventor.

imagine if we spent time discussing if covid hospitalization and death stats are "with" covid or "from" covid?

 

[Smellytele]

What is the definition of is?

 

[Andrew B.]

"a" inventor or "the" inventor.

imagine if we spent time discussing if covid hospitalization and death stats are "with" covid or "from" covid?

Speaking to MSNBC's Ayman Mohyeldin, who was filling in for Rachel Maddow on Wednesday night, Fauci suggested that some of the children currently being treated at medical facilities were hospitalized with COVID as opposed to "because of COVID."

There seems to be some recognition of the difference now

 

[Smellytele]

I also believe that more people are testing positive as more people have access to home test kits and are testing themselves especially around the holidays. Even though they are asymptomatic.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

I also believe that more people are testing positive as more people have access to home test kits and are testing themselves especially around the holidays. Even though they are asymptomatic.

those tests arent hitting the case numbers if they weren't administered by a provider, so whats your point?

 

[Andrew B.]

The positive home tests for asymptomatic hit the system when those who get a home positive then go into confirm their status as recommended.

All the while still being asymptomatic.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

the overwhelming majority of those people are not going in for further testing. at least not in city centers where its a big pain in the ass to stand online at cityMD for 2+ hours just to confirm what you already know and you don't even feel sick

 

[Andrew B.]

the overwhelming majority of those people are not going in for further testing. at least not in city centers where its a big pain in the ass to stand online at cityMD for 2+ hours just to confirm what you already know and you don't even feel sick

Everyone I know (at least 6 asymptomatic) has followed the recomendations because they wanted to know if they NEEDED to stand down. Many took multiple test before testing clean.
YMMV

 

[abc]

All the while still being asymptomatic.

Asymptomatic people are infectious also.

 

[Andrew B.]

Asymptomatic people are infectious also.

They sure are but how many are out there? No one knows but some studies show that number is pretty high, which means they are out there functioning and not dying.

How do we justify closing down important functions of everyday life when we don’t know who is truly sick and when the consequences of exposure for (vaccinated adults) are no longer “crushing”?

We are now educated on what covid is and who is at most risk. If you are at high risk, get the shot and wear a mask. Don’t ride the box. Stay home if thats the only way you feel safe. I will do my part too. When I feel sick I promise I will stay home, something I was taught NOT to do as an apprentice.

We risk our lives every time we get behind the wheel of a car. If not “dying in a car wreck” is the most important thing to you, don’t get in a car. I can respect that.

I value being able to move around more than some others. I evaluated the risk and I feel it’s time to live with it.

 

[EPB]

I need an excuse to dismiss someone with credentials that won't confirm my priors. Laughing at this guy's website without any actual critique should suffice. I bet a couple people with thumbs up my post for that.

Robert W Malone MD

www.rwmalonemd.com

I think the pharmaceutical industry, their friends at the CDC and the rest of the racket that gave us the opioid crisis are giving it to us straight this time. No incentive to deploy hundreds of millions of doses if you're Pfizer or to tell the populace "we protected you" if you're the government.

Or

I know. Let's bury my premise that "100% of doctors genuinely believe that mRNA therapy is a one size fits a all remedy for the whole population" in a comment about the "tons of money" I think this guy gets paid by podcasters.

Hmmm......

[Insert useless red herring here to insinuate that you should come to me for the answers.]

Fixed that last post for you.

It's so sad what this place has become. I used to really love it here. Guess I'll try again next year.

"Vaccines are safe and effective" may well become this generation's "there are WMDs in Iraq". We've seen this movie before. Hysterical left wing COVID hawks = Hysterical neo-con war hawks. Fear begets rational risk/reward analysis, and things devolve. Get ready for it to come out that the vaccines we all got (yes I'm on team jab) are all but useless against Omicron. Not to mention they don't do anything to help children who can handly fight COVID (if they have no co-morbidities). Healthy kids are more likely to get hit by the school bus than die of COVID. It's ALL downside for those kids, and way to many people don't get it, don't care, or a combination of the two. It's disgusting.

Not that my predictions can go to the bank, but perhaps the firiest thing I said in Spring 2020 was that "Andrew Cuomo is an idiot" just to jog your memory .

All the best. I mean it because I remember a time when the cast of characters in here were better versions of themselves. I regret to report I got so much happier when I left. After some disappointment on the lack of improvement here, I trust I'll be better off elsewhere this year, too.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

dont let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Smellytele]

those tests arent hitting the case numbers if they weren't administered by a provider, so whats your point?

My point is when they do test positive then they go in to get the real test. Before this they didn’t even know and didn’t get tested at all.

 

[SnowRock]

They sure are but how many are out there? No one knows but some studies show that number is pretty high, which means they are out there functioning and not dying.

How do we justify closing down important functions of everyday life when we don’t know who is truly sick and when the consequences of exposure for (vaccinated adults) are no longer “crushing”?

We are now educated on what covid is and who is at most risk. If you are at high risk, get the shot and wear a mask. Don’t ride the box. Stay home if thats the only way you feel safe. I will do my part too. When I feel sick I promise I will stay home, something I was taught NOT to do as an apprentice.

We risk our lives every time we get behind the wheel of a car. If not “dying in a car wreck” is the most important thing to you, don’t get in a car. I can respect that.

I value being able to move around more than some others. I evaluated the risk and I feel it’s time to live with it.

Define not crushing?

My worry from the start has always been the impact on our health and hospital systems. We don’t have a lot of extra capacity at all. And while the data suggests omnicron is less severe on the lungs, and we have a much larger number of individuals vaxxed or with some level of protection from previous infections along with a better understanding of how to treat + therapeutics, something so contagious can still have a big impact even if it puts a smaller number of infected in the hospital system.

Pre COVID-19 we were regularly running at 75+ % capacity nationwide with our hospital system... and that would spike to 85-90% during a regular flu season (higher if it was a bad one). So even small spikes in hospitalization impact the system.

We have been flat out in many areas of the country for two years… this system is powered by skilled humans. I really do worry about the long term impact on all hospital care as this continues. Humans burn out. Humans make mistakes when stressed. Patients can be negatively impacted when procedures are delayed or preventative screenings are missed because of lack of resources. A close friend has an infant who needs a procedure, it is still considered "elective" at this point but in normal times he would have had it two months ago. Has been postponed on them twice. Likely will be again in Feb. That sucks.

And not advocating for closures or anything... just pointing out that this continues to really strain our finite health resources even though most of us are "over it."

 

[drjeff]

My point is when they do test positive then they go in to get the real test. Before this they didn’t even know and didn’t get tested at all.

It seems like with the at home tesing, that if one does test positive, and has little to no symptoms, that given the turn around time for much of the PCR testing done right now, that many medical providers as well as some public health officials, are starting to discourage those with a positive at home test from getting a PCR, and just presume your at home test is valid, "quarrantine" at home for 5 days, and all good. Unless one's job/school specifically needs to see a negative PCR for "return to normal" status, the vast majority who test positive with just mild symptoms, really don't need a PCR confirmation right now.

Now if we want to get into the nitty gritty of why after almost 2 years, we DON'T have a larger scale, more efficient testing system, especially given all of the COVID relief $$ that has been allocated via various COVID spending bills passed thusfar, that I think is a very relevant topic that should be discussed, but likely many governmental and public health officials don't want to be pressed on

 

[mikec142]

Dr Mengele I presume?

Uh...that's some awful leap of logic...

 

[deadheadskier]

Fixed that last post for you.

It's so sad what this place has become. I used to really love it here. Guess I'll try again next year.

"Vaccines are safe and effective" may well become this generation's "there are WMDs in Iraq". We've seen this movie before. Hysterical left wing COVID hawks = Hysterical neo-con war hawks. Fear begets rational risk/reward analysis, and things devolve. Get ready for it to come out that the vaccines we all got (yes I'm on team jab) are all but useless against Omicron. Not to mention they don't do anything to help children who can handly fight COVID (if they have no co-morbidities). Healthy kids are more likely to get hit by the school bus than die of COVID. It's ALL downside for those kids, and way to many people don't get it, don't care, or a combination of the two. It's disgusting.

Not that my predictions can go to the bank, but perhaps the firiest thing I said in Spring 2020 was that "Andrew Cuomo is an idiot" just to jog your memory .

All the best. I mean it because I remember a time when the cast of characters in here were better versions of themselves. I regret to report I got so much happier when I left. After some disappointment on the lack of improvement here, I trust I'll be better off elsewhere this year, too.

I'm sorry you feel that way and I've always respected your opinions and posting style even when we disagree on topics.

This would be one of those times. I simply read that website and don't see a see a serious MD. I see someone that does know more about medicine than I ever will. Malone has accomplished a lot. But there is a major movement of people fighting back against mandates. You see it in this thread. The right wing has turned "mandates" into a big scary word like "socialism" or "antifa" . Or how about "big pharma". It's a rallying cry. So, it's an opportunity to get airtime with a specific audience and make a name for himself.

Serious MDs looking to make change are using channels such as NEJM to influence change and build coalition, not talk shows like JoePrah. I can't take Malone seriously for the same reason I don't take Dr Oz or Sanjay Gupta seriously. They're about being stars and making money. That's it.

Anyways, if you do move on, I'll miss your contributions and I wish for you a great season.

 

[EPB]

I'm sorry you feel that way and I've always respected your opinions and posting style even when we disagree on topics.

This would be one of those times. I simply read that website and don't see a see a serious MD. I see someone that does know more about medicine than I ever will. Malone has accomplished a lot. But there is a major movement of people fighting back against mandates. You see it in this thread. The right wing has turned "mandates" into a big scary word like "socialism" or "antifa" . Or how about "big pharma". It's a rallying cry. So, it's an opportunity to get airtime with a specific audience and make a name for himself.

Serious MDs looking to make change are using channels such as NEJM to influence change and build coalition, not talk shows like JoePrah. I can't take Malone seriously for the same reason I don't take Dr Oz or Sanjay Gupta seriously. They're about being stars and making money. That's it.

Anyways, if you do move on, I'll miss your contributions and I wish for you a great season.

I'll take offline. Too much snarky b***s**t from me - my apologies. Your post just happened to be the one that put my disappointment over the top.

I've lurked a few times here and there and found this and Vail Sucks essentially running the show. The negativity isn't fun, but that was a bad way for me to vocalize. EPB.

 

[Andrew B.]

Define not crushing?

My worry from the start has always been the impact on our health and hospital systems. We don’t have a lot of extra capacity at all. And while the data suggests omnicron is less severe on the lungs, and we have a much larger number of individuals vaxxed or with some level of protection from previous infections along with a better understanding of how to treat + therapeutics, something so contagious can still have a big impact even if it puts a smaller number of infected in the hospital system.

Pre COVID-19 we were regularly running at 75+ % capacity nationwide with our hospital system... and that would spike to 85-90% during a regular flu season (higher if it was a bad one). So even small spikes in hospitalization impact the system.

We have been flat out in many areas of the country for two years… this system is powered by skilled humans. I really do worry about the long term impact on all hospital care as this continues. Humans burn out. Humans make mistakes when stressed. Patients can be negatively impacted when procedures are delayed or preventative screenings are missed because of lack of resources. A close friend has an infant who needs a procedure, it is still considered "elective" at this point but in normal times he would have had it two months ago. Has been postponed on them twice. Likely will be again in Feb. That sucks.

And not advocating for closures or anything... just pointing out that this continues to really strain our finite health resources even though most of us are "over it."

That’s valid
My only comments would be I have heard doctors say they are also crushed with patients that should have come in during 2020 (with Covid as well) and now things can become beyond control. That demand will hopefully wane.

As it also appears this virus seems to weaken as it mutates it seems like at some point this will feel more like the general Flu which when it showed up in 1918 and killed 50,000,000 at time before the global movement patterns we see today.

Missing 4% of the workers due to what I feel will be looked back as an over reaction would have helped too.