Progress on Deer Valley's New Sister Resort

[Tonyr]

Deer valley annual revenue...600 million.

That is alot of revenue. I'm not a huge fan of the skiing at Deer Valley but that resort is probably the crown jewel of Alterra's holdings...

 

[kingslug]

Sugarbush is a hill in comparison..
But it's our little hill...

 

[drjeff]

Almost all these Alterra & Vail brass are western people. Sometimes it's obvious they have no clue about eastern skiing, in an almost - "look how cute it is" fashion.

Truth.

However, Vail does seem more interested in spending some infrastructure $$ back East than Alterra has to date. They've built a FGQ and HSQ at Attitash, a HS6 at Stowe, both a HS6 and relocated bubble quad at Okemo, both a HS6 and HSQ at Mount Snow, I can't recall whether it was 2 or 3 fixed grips at either Jack Frost or Big Boulder (maybe it was at both) in PA and then the new HS6 and relocating a FGQ on deck this Summer at Hunter.

If I am not mistaken, the upgrade of the Heaven's Gate FG3 to a FG4 next Summer is the 1st "new" lift at an Eastern Resort that Alterra owns

 

[jaytrem]

I can't recall whether it was 2 or 3 fixed grips at either Jack Frost or Big Boulder (maybe it was at both) in PA

5 total, 3 at JF, 2 a BB. Pretty crazy for 1 year.

 

[drjeff]

5 total, 3 at JF, 2 a BB. Pretty crazy for 1 year.

Thanks for the help on that. I knew it was a significant number of FG lifts they installed at those 2 this past Summer. All Skytrac's I believe

 

[WoodCore]

Truth.

However, Vail does seem more interested in spending some infrastructure $$ back East than Alterra has to date. They've built a FGQ and HSQ at Attitash, a HS6 at Stowe, both a HS6 and relocated bubble quad at Okemo, both a HS6 and HSQ at Mount Snow, I can't recall whether it was 2 or 3 fixed grips at either Jack Frost or Big Boulder (maybe it was at both) in PA and then the new HS6 and relocating a FGQ on deck this Summer at Hunter.

If I am not mistaken, the upgrade of the Heaven's Gate FG3 to a FG4 next Summer is the 1st "new" lift at an Eastern Resort that Alterra owns

Snow Bowl Express @ Stratton was the first from Alterra on the east coast just after they took over.

 

[raisingarizona]

That is alot of revenue. I'm not a huge fan of the skiing at Deer Valley but that resort is probably the crown jewel of Alterra's holdings...

View attachment 60814

There's a good handful of big $ makers on that list.

 

[raisingarizona]

This thing is absolutely ginormous as pictured, both in the skiing layout and the "city" they're building west of the Jordanelle.

I have a real hard time believing this all gets built as depicted. Already I see it appears the gondy rumored to be going from Mayflower to Snowpark's apparently been scrapped given it's not on the below diagram. So much for the, "everyone who lives on the Wasatch Back can take the gondola to work instead of driving to Park City" talking point, I called that out some pages back as ridiculous BS.

And where the hell is all the money for this going to come from? Sixteen lifts? I imagine the gondy alone's going to cost ~$15'ish million. Is Alterra not going to spend anywhere else over the next 3 years, lol.

View attachment 60813

Real estate sales BG.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Real estate sales BG.

That's all it's really about. And the Tiger Woods golf course as an additional hook.

I'm very skeptical how much is really going to get done once the real estate sales money's in the cash register. Stop me if you've heard the story of a developer who promised "myriad amenities", and then some of those expensive amenities used as a carrot to help sales somehow never happen.

Or will the massive snowmaking required to work this sucker drop off dramatically after 4 or 5 years, like all those high-end golf courses that a few years after all the golf homes are sold let the fairways get a centimeter longer, doesn't aerate the greens as often, rarely cuts the trap edges, derelicts on cart maintenance, yada, yada, yada.

Hopefully it all works out; I'm just kind of worried about having two of America's largest ski areas literally right next to each other - touching in fact. When this is done you'll be able to drive from northern Midway or Heber City all the way past Kimball Junction with at least some ski trails in view the entire time. Mindboggling really.

 

[raisingarizona]

Everything will be connected within 20 years from now. No use worrying about any of it.

 

[thetrailboss]

Deer valley annual revenue...600 million.

Source? I ask because it’s known that Deer Valley’s revenue streams are rather limited. They DON’T own or manage all the real estate developments. They only own a couple of relatively small hotels and lodges. They have always been a ski resort with food and beverage and ski area services. $600 million annually is a lot. That would be almost all of the revenue generated by IKON pass sales. $60 million? A big maybe.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Yeah, there's no way Deer Valley does $600 Million a year.

I did pay $65 to take their Turkey Chili Class a few months back so gotta factor that in.

 

[kingslug]

I looked it up and went through a lot of sites...that number came up. But sugarbush's numbers came up at 110 mil...then another listed it at 20 mil. So I guess..who knows. 600 seems very high but the place is packed, and I'm sure with some pretty high rollers.
The houses there are pretty amazing...prolly empty most of the time though.
Anyone find a revenue report?

 

[kingslug]

 

[kingslug]

Looking around at other sites..the numbers are all over the place.
Who knows..

 

[kingslug]

Hey..it's snowing!

 

[Tonyr]

Deer Valley could very well be near that 600 million a year number. Alterra did 1.7 bill in revenue through the 2022 year. Divide that evenly by 16 resorts and it's 106 million per resort. We know that some of the smaller resorts in the portfolio don't come close to generating 100 mill a year in revenue...

 

[xlr8r]

Truth.

However, Vail does seem more interested in spending some infrastructure $$ back East than Alterra has to date. They've built a FGQ and HSQ at Attitash, a HS6 at Stowe, both a HS6 and relocated bubble quad at Okemo, both a HS6 and HSQ at Mount Snow, I can't recall whether it was 2 or 3 fixed grips at either Jack Frost or Big Boulder (maybe it was at both) in PA and then the new HS6 and relocating a FGQ on deck this Summer at Hunter.

If I am not mistaken, the upgrade of the Heaven's Gate FG3 to a FG4 next Summer is the 1st "new" lift at an Eastern Resort that Alterra owns

2018, Alterra's first year, the Snowbowl Express quad at Stratton, and the Lowell Thomas Express quad at Tremblant were installed. In 2023 the Powder Monkey fixed quad was built at Snowshoe. This summer Stratton is going to replace Tamarack with an express quad in addition to Heaven's Gate being replaced with a fixed quad at Sugarbush. There is also a real estate fixed quad projected to be built at Tremblant in the near future. Not a part of the Alterra Portfolio, but still owned by KSL, which partly owns Alterra, Blue Mountain and Camelback in PA both received new express six-packs in 2022.

I think overall the investment in lifts is comparable between Alterra and Vail considering Vail owns more mountains in the east than Alterra. The only Alterra resort in the east that has not yet received a new lift is Sugarbush.

 

[thetrailboss]

This thing is absolutely ginormous as pictured, both in the skiing layout and the "city" they're building west of the Jordanelle.

I have a real hard time believing this all gets built as depicted. Already I see it appears the gondy rumored to be going from Mayflower to Snowpark's apparently been scrapped given it's not on the below diagram. So much for the, "everyone who lives on the Wasatch Back can take the gondola to work instead of driving to Park City" talking point, I called that out some pages back as ridiculous BS.

Interesting. It looks like you might be right on the gondola now not extending down into Snow Park. Another map I saw still had a leg going to Snow Park if not a separate lift.

As to the latter part, that is called marketing spin. Alterra thinks they are quite good at it. Sort of like in 2019 when they thought they could tell locals that the reason for crowding and traffic issues "was the great snow year" and not the IKON pass. It sounds reasonable until you dig down a bit deeper. Here, Alterra knows that Park City DOES NOT like them or Vail due to the traffic and crowding issues. So throw this spin out there and some might buy it and just go along with their proposals. Remember that is was not that long ago that Park City and locals were very down on Alterra's plans to redevelop Snow Park. For some reason Alterra really wants to do that project.

And where the hell is all the money for this going to come from? Sixteen lifts? I imagine the gondy alone's going to cost ~$15'ish million. Is Alterra not going to spend anywhere else over the next 3 years, lol.

There is a simple answer to that question. It's called the IKON Pass. I have it on good authority that they sold almost 1 million IKON passes this past year. Do the math. And the partner resorts are getting peanuts. That is why they are continuing to spend like drunken sailors on buying other areas (Schweitzer, Snow Valley) and doing insane and probably unnecessary lift projects here and at Steamboat. The end game? Real Estate. Though they want to be perceived as being sophisticated and new-age, that strategy is at least 50 years old in the ski business.

 

[thetrailboss]

That is alot of revenue. I'm not a huge fan of the skiing at Deer Valley but that resort is probably the crown jewel of Alterra's holdings...

View attachment 60814

As discussed, that number is likely wrong. Deer Valley does not control the most lucrative part of the business, which would be all the real estate and hotels.