Superpasses: more crowds?

[kingslug]

And this guy:

 

[BenedictGomez]

simply having cable tv still didn't make anywhere near as much information so readily available in seconds as it is today.

You have a habit of frequently moving the goalposts when you discuss things. The fact information is "available in seconds" today as opposed to "waiting 15 minutes" for TWC is completely irrelevant to the discussion of whether people knew what the weather would be like this weekend in 1985 or 1995. Spoiler alert, they did. For additional helpful reminders, you didn't have a brick oven stove in your kitchen in 1985, and you didnt rely on horse & buggy for primary transportation in 1995.

Yes, but we all didn't have phone's we could pull up live radar and keep track ourselves at all times of day in the 80's and 90's.

True; and everyone know this, but again, completely irrelevant to the topic.

 

[cdskier]

You have a habit of frequently moving the goalposts when you discuss things. The fact information is "available in seconds" today as opposed to "waiting 15 minutes" for TWC is completely irrelevant to the discussion of whether people knew what the weather would be like this weekend in 1985 or 1995.

What goal posts exactly did I move? To refresh your memory, here's what I said:

It was also not as easy to know what was going on in other places in the 80s. Most of what you saw on the local news was LOCAL weather. If you lived in NJ, you didn't see VT forecasts (or CO or UT, etc). Maybe if you were lucky enough to have cable tv and had the weather channel you'd possibly see some talk of the weather across the US and might have a chance to know about some bigger snowstorms. Today I can get a forecast for any city no matter how near or far in seconds. People really seem to have forgotten how transformational the Internet really has been in our lives in terms of access to information. It was only in the late 90s that access to the Internet became more mainstream.

Looks to me like I'm still making the same argument...

 

[tumbler]

Are you two really arguing over cable tv in the 80's & 90's? Either go skiing or get laid. Sheesh.

 

[cdskier]

Are you two really arguing over cable tv in the 80's & 90's? Either go skiing or get laid. Sheesh.

I had 3 great days of skiing at Sugarbush this past weekend...but now it is mid-week so arguing will have to keep me entertained for a bit.

 

[kingslug]

I watch youtube vids of skiing...

 

[nhskier1969]

I think the key proof that access to information has had an impact on ski area traffic is the booking and cancellation behavior of skiers now vs then. And that goes for any weather dependent destination. People are booking and cancelling far more last minute than ever before. Hell, in my resort managemnt classes at UVM in the late 90s I remember this being taught by my college professors and also commonly brought up by industry leaders who would guest lecture. They all said this was a changing reality that made it more difficult to forecast business and resulted in having to be more dynamic in their pricing.

Why? We were entering the "information age."

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I disagree with cancellation. I was a season Pass Holder a Sugarbush for the past 5 years. We wanted to try the Ikon Pass this year so we can ski different areas. We will probably go back to Sugarbush next year. But before I rented at SB seasonal I would rent for the weekend just like most people on this thread. I got to tell you, 6 years ago I could book a place the week of. Now you have to book a place a month out and there is no cancellation policy on VRBO. It is much harder to rent a place for the weekend now because of the superpasses.

 

[x10003q]

Your point is what exactly, that 2 hour lift lines are totally cool just because it snowed? You act like avi control did not exist previously.

Opening at 9:45 on a deep day is no different than 20 years ago, actually probably earlier. What is different is waiting twice as long and literally 4x as many people, if not more.

The point is it was not 9am. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you don't like it you need to find a different place to ski. You had a nice run. It is not 1999.

 

[BenedictGomez]

If you don't like it you need to find a different place to ski. You had a nice run. It is not 1999.

I hope x10003q doesn't work in marketing!

 

[deadheadskier]

I read that the Vail COO made a statement on the viral lift line photos.

The gondola / base they made no excuse for. Basically said historic snow = historic line. But, the lines were gone by 10AM.

The long lines on the chair were apparently due to Back Bowl closures from Avalanche work. Apparently they had staff positioned at the top of the runs leading to that chair saying it was gonna suck. She said they did not communicate such enough and promised next time they will try harder to let people know how much it will suck.

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[BenedictGomez]

I read that the Vail COO made a statement on the viral lift line photos.

Basically said historic snow = historic line.

Did he say what was "historic" about the snow?

 

[skiur]

I read that the Vail COO made a statement on the viral lift line photos.

The gondola / base they made no excuse for. Basically said historic snow = historic line. But, the lines were gone by 10AM.

The long lines on the chair were apparently due to Back Bowl closures from Avalanche work. Apparently they had staff positioned at the top of the runs leading to that chair saying it was gonna suck. She said they did not communicate such enough and promised next time they will try harder to let people know how much it will suck.

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http://blog.vail.com/a-lot-on-the-l...I9JPZAZ0siSAoT-7YYq6ZX0Ot-lkDh2SnGe8DjyKyhL9k

 

[Zermatt]

Honestly, seems like a very reasonable response from the COO and glad they addressed it.

A bit surprised that 38" causes that much chaos in Colorado. That's a big storm in UT but nowhere near top 5.

 

[drjeff]

Honestly, seems like a very reasonable response from the COO and glad they addressed it.

A bit surprised that 38" causes that much chaos in Colorado. That's a big storm in UT but nowhere near top 5.

I think the bigger issue Vail had with the storm wasn't the quantity of snow outright, but the quantity spread out over their HUGE acreage, especially in the back bowls.

If one has never seen the back bowls at Vail on a clear day, it's really tough to appreciate how vast that terrain is

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[BenedictGomez]

A bit surprised that 38" causes that much chaos in Colorado.
That's a big storm in UT but nowhere near top 5.

I'm shocked 38" in just over 48 hours could possibly be #5 in the Colorado mountains. I got 36" a few years ago in my NJ backyard in less time at the massive elevation of 400'.

 

[ScottySkis]

I'm shocked 38" in just over 48 hours could possibly be #5 in the Colorado mountains. I got 36" a few years ago in my NJ backyard in less time at the massive elevation of 400'.

Colorado some average same amount of snow as North Vermont
I learned that after my first trip to west coast

 

[machski]

I'm shocked 38" in just over 48 hours could possibly be #5 in the Colorado mountains. I got 36" a few years ago in my NJ backyard in less time at the massive elevation of 400'.

To put it in perspective BG, Copper is only up to 180 inches on the season. I can believe that is a big snowfall from one storm for Colorado. The other factor is that storm was not light, dry Rockies powder. It was much more sense, felt more like Eastern powder (at least up at Steamboat). Powder for sure, but not the airy pow you float through. This stuff you had to work through it.

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[AdironRider]

Here we are with more apologizing for ski resort management incompetence. You guys must own Vail stock or something. This "historic crowds" argument is bull and I can't believe management is literally blaming the customer for the problem. For example: Jackson tried to blame crowding on historic snowfall, that wasn't even in the top 3 in the past decade in terms of total snow last year. Just this past January they had "the most snow ever between the dates of Jan 3rd and 11th". Are you kidding me? That is some arbitrary history. Not the most snow ever in a week, or the most in January, just the most between a specific 7 day period in January. That is thinly veiled customer bashing and it is unbelievable you guys are letting them get away with it.

Ski resorts, if they are going to flood the place, should be able to manage crowding effectively. Anything else is pure incompetence.

But I do agree that Colorado doesn't actually get that much snow. It just doesn't get the freeze / thaw cycles.

 

[abc]

The long lines on the chair were apparently due to Back Bowl closures from Avalanche work. Apparently they had staff positioned at the top of the runs leading to that chair saying it was gonna suck. She said they did not communicate such enough and promised next time they will try harder to let people know how much it will suck.

I remember some 20 years ago when I first visited Vail. One day, there's a lot of snow (it may have been one of their "historical" powder days in history too). I wasn't a powder skier back then (much harder on straight skis). But I had to try those famous powder! I did poorly and worse, somehow "accidentally" ended up on the bottom of the back bowl. Holy cow, the zoo of people waiting for the chair to go back to the front side!

I didn't time the wait right away. But it was a long one. After seemingly endless standing without the line getting any shorter, I started to time it. From that point on, it was 20 minutes. THAT, was the longest I ever waited in line up to that point. So it stuck in my mind.

So much so I purposely avoid going to Vail for the next 5+ years!

Due to THAT experience a couple decades ago, every time I go to Vail, I worry about the lines in the back bowl.

 

[AdironRider]

So much so I purposely avoid going to Vail for the next 5+ years!

This is the real and fast approaching problem.