Superpasses: more crowds?

[jaytrem]

Another factor is that literally three of our closest families have up and moved for various reasons. Two of them are in Montana now (hence, the Ski Discovery visits on my tally this season). They want us to buy passes to Discovery and commit to coming up every major holiday.

Mmmmmmm, Discovery!

That's quite a haul though.

Better be careful with the kid. Would suck if she ends up hating skiing. Maybe cut your losses and ski with her for the rest of the season. All fun, no stress. That's pretty much what I do with my kids. It does help that they're twins, so always have same age company.

 

[JimG.]

Soon there won't be season passes available to specific mountains. You will have to buy a megapass to ski anywhere.

The last time I got into this thread I mentioned realtors must be sweating and got called out by people for it. What the hell am I talking about? Well I was planning on buying a ski home in NE but now I'm pondering why I would even bother. If I have to buy a megapass to ski I'll obviously have a choice of places to ski. And if I can't have a home hill and season pass there, why would I commit to living in the area. That just becomes a financial burden I'm better off without so I can afford lodging and airfare to far flung locations.

Get it now?

 

[jimk]

I was up at Snowbird all day on Saturday, Feb 22 and actually found it to be fairly manageable crowd-wise. It took about 45 mins to do what optimally can be a 15-20 min drive up the LCC. But once there, lines were not too bad. Spent time in Mineral Basin, Gad 2, Little Cloud etc. Restored my faith that weekends can still be fun.
I am up in Jackson, WY now. Did not ski today 2/24, but saw similar slowdowns as LCC to get from town to JH ski area. Big backup tonight for return to town due to an accident. Pretty big liftlines in AM I heard, but got better later. I will by skiing there tomorrow. I think IKON has made a big difference increasing crowds throughout the season at JH.

I have about ten days at four different Vail Resorts this year and they have not been too crazy. I heard an employee at Breckenridge tell me that IKON is the best thing that happened to his resort - with respect to lowering bad crowds??

 

[thetrailboss]

Soon there won't be season passes available to specific mountains. You will have to buy a megapass to ski anywhere.

Exactly what I said. And folks thought I was equally crazy.


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[BenedictGomez]

Get it now?

I can see the potentiality of your overall point, but definitely not how you're explaining it.

People with $270,000 extra dollars to buy a "ski home", arent going to see an annual ski pass as a "financial burden".

 

[JimG.]

I can see the potentiality of your overall point, but definitely not how you're explaining it.

People with $270,000 extra dollars to buy a "ski home", arent going to see an annual ski pass as a "financial burden".

You completely missed my point.

The home itself is the financial burden, not the ski pass.

Why would anyone buy a ski home:

1) near a mountain that they can't buy a season pass at because they are forced to buy a megapass?

2) when they have to travel to take advantage of the megapass they have to purchase?

Reread my previous post.

 

[mbedle]

You completely missed my point.

The home itself is the financial burden, not the ski pass.

Why would anyone buy a ski home:

1) near a mountain that they can't buy a season pass at because they are forced to buy a megapass?

2) when they have to travel to take advantage of the megapass they have to purchase?

Reread my previous post.

I guess I am still missing your point. Do you not considered the Epic Pass a season pass at places like Stowe or Okemo?

 

[deadheadskier]

You completely missed my point.

The home itself is the financial burden, not the ski pass.

Why would anyone buy a ski home:

1) near a mountain that they can't buy a season pass at because they are forced to buy a megapass?

2) when they have to travel to take advantage of the megapass they have to purchase?

Reread my previous post.

I'd only buy a ski home if it met certain criteria financially.

A. It's in a location that I want to visit frequently outside of the 5 month ski season

or

B. It would have the potential for short term rental income in the off season that covered my expenses while not using it.

Otherwise I'd rent

As for whether the physical ski mountain is on an individual pass vs megapass, I'd simply look at industry history and know ownership, management styles and affiliations are probably going to change over the couple of decades or more that I'd plan on using it. That's been the case for virtually all major Northeast ski areas since the 90s.



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[kingslug]

We bought at Stowe and it has worked out pretty well. We rent it here and there..we like the area...its "only 5 hours from CT" yeah I know but its not the worst drive. Its nice in the off season. And it snows quite a bit up there. Plus it gives us access to several places within an hour. Its our escape from working in this dump called NYC.
Skiing is one of the few escapes I have from the madness of working in the city..I'm just not going to let its "evolution" turn me sour on it..have to roll with it and deal with it.

 

[jaytrem]

2) when they have to travel to take advantage of the megapass they have to purchase?

This I don't get. It seems like the megapasses are either cheaper or not much more expensive than the "regular" season passes that were previously offered. Only difference is the pass is now good at a load of other places. If you don't use it at any of them who cares.

 

[kingslug]

Stowe season pass was 1800 bucks...
https://www.vtcng.com/stowe_reporte...cle_e7515264-3c04-11e7-8d86-079751e2166c.html

 

[drjeff]

You completely missed my point.

The home itself is the financial burden, not the ski pass.

Why would anyone buy a ski home:

1) near a mountain that they can't buy a season pass at because they are forced to buy a megapass?

2) when they have to travel to take advantage of the megapass they have to purchase?

Reread my previous post.

I guess if one was looking at a mountain that's part of IKON, but not with an unlimited number of days at that mountain, then one would have the decision to make about getting that specific mountain's season pass if they wanted to ski more than the allotted number of IKON days and/or also get a mega pass additionally if that made sense to them.

In my own specific case with Mount Snow as my home base and being on the EPIC, my EPIC local is my unlimited pass which works great for me, and many of my friends, who also own at Mount Snow, have also used their EPIC passes to travel out West this year. A win/win for us. Cost difference was minimal, options that EPIC created are numerous.

Also, at least within my own, albeit limited without a doubt, cross section of friends who are 2nd homeowners at Mount Snow, probably close to 50% of them will also take a trip, or even multiple trips, out West every season. We all love skiing and/or riding, and we bought our 2nd homes since it makes the week in and week out logistics of our on hill enjoyment easier, that still doesn't mean that we also don't from time to time want to go out West and ski there as well. For example in the last week or 2 with it being numerous school vacation weeks, my FB page has had many pictures of some of my Mount Snow friends out at Vail, Beaver Creek, Crested Butte, Big Sky, Jackson Hole, and Steamboat. Many of us, for various reasons, also have both EPIC's and IKON's this season

 

[boston_e]

You completely missed my point.

The home itself is the financial burden, not the ski pass.

Why would anyone buy a ski home:

1) near a mountain that they can't buy a season pass at because they are forced to buy a megapass?

2) when they have to travel to take advantage of the megapass they have to purchase?

Reread my previous post.

Except for the most part these "mega passes" are cheaper than what used to be the mountain specific season pass... why should it matter if that pass also includes other mountains?

In the case of a mountain that is on a mega pass, but not unlimited days, they will still always give you the option to buy that mountain specific pass...

 

[EPB]

It's hard to know without robust survey data or the passage of time, but I have a hard time believing that people with the desire and ability to purchase a second home are now less likely to do so because of the pass options that are available.

As I've mentioned several times here, i grew up going to my parent's place in the MWV. We had the ASC super pass come though. It afforded us the option to go to SR and SL more often than we would have. My dad hit SB a few times on midweek school days. We also hit K a few times, too.

Wildcat was frankly a bigger win from my perspective, and having Stowe (and to a lesser extent, western options) in play for a few days a season makes me more excited about saving for my own place in the MWV one day. I've been to most of the IKON options in the east, and I like them a lot. It's enough to move the needle for me though. Frankly, the worst case scenario for me would to have all the MWV resorts offering single mountain passes.

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[AdironRider]

It's hard to know without robust survey data or the passage of time, but I have a hard time believing that people with the desire and ability to purchase a second home are now less likely to do so because of the pass options that are available.

Or you could just listen to any of us actual locals shouting from rooftops that this is a PROBLEM. I do not understand the apologists on this board for ski resort management incompetence.

Rich people don't like waiting in line with 10000 of their closest friends. There was a reason Jackson and Aspen get the prices they do, and it is more than just terrain/snowfall.

To be fair though, I do not see this being a problem on the EC second home market (outside of maybe Stowe), where every hardcore skier is going to take their cheap access to Jackson/Vail/Alta/Aspen once a year because EC skiing is a means to an end at best, and they'll buy a place at an EC hill for different reasons like logistics or programming.

 

[EPB]

Or you could just listen to any of us actual locals shouting from rooftops that this is a PROBLEM. I do not understand the apologists on this board for ski resort management incompetence.

Rich people don't like waiting in line with 10000 of their closest friends. There was a reason Jackson and Aspen get the prices they do, and it is more than just terrain/snowfall.

To be fair though, I do not see this being a problem on the EC second home market (outside of maybe Stowe), where every hardcore skier is going to take their cheap access to Jackson/Vail/Alta/Aspen once a year because EC skiing is a means to an end at best, and they'll buy a place at an EC hill for different reasons like logistics or programming.

I hear you on the western piece. I have no desire to ski an Epic/IKON place out west on the weekend at all. I'd rather try an independent place on the weekend or get home earlier and save the $$$ on lodging, etc. I'm not realistically the type to want to buy out west unless it were full time, but any interest I did have has gone down.

It feels like the default view of large ski areas is that locals always have a reason to complain. Therefore, their complaints (which seem totally valid here) can easily be dismissed as inevitable complaining by a naturally whiny demographic.

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[deadheadskier]

I'm not sure many ski area GMs give a shit about the crowding complaints whether from locals or tourists if the mountain is printing money.

Massive crowds is not incompetence, it's literally the exact opposite. That's what a business wants to be. As busy and profitable as can be.

Will the crowds eventually drive people elsewhere and negate those profits? I don't think in a meaningful enough way for the Megapass areas to make many significant changes.

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[BenedictGomez]

Or you could just listen to any of us actual locals shouting from rooftops that this is a PROBLEM. I do not understand the apologists on this board for ski resort management incompetence.

That's only about 3 posters who never mention an unkind word about EPIC or IKON, lol. They like their cheap skiing, and to hell with the consequences (for others); to each his/her own I guess.

 

[EPB]

I'm not sure many ski area GMs give a shit about the crowding complaints whether from locals or tourists if the mountain is printing money.

Massive crowds is not incompetence, it's literally the exact opposite. That's what a business wants to be. As busy and profitable as can be.

Will the crowds eventually drive people elsewhere and negate those profits? I don't think in a meaningful enough way for the Megapass areas to make many significant changes.

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Yeah the only thing you can really knock (from a $$$ perspective) is that visitor satisfaction is probably going down. Raking in the $$$ now is great for today, but could do some long run harm if the mega passes turn too many people off over time. We'll see eventually.

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[BenedictGomez]

Yeah the only thing you can really knock (from a $$$ perspective) is that visitor satisfaction is probably going down. Raking in the $$$ now is great for today, but could do some long run harm if the mega passes turn too many people off over time. We'll see eventually.

Or prevent people from ever taking up the sport in the first place due to the high cost of single day tix, which is a real concern.