VAIL SUCKS

[Smellytele]

Vermont ski culture and ski towns are changing. Many are blaming Vail.​

How has Vail’s acquisition of Vermont ski areas impacted locals?

Vermont ski culture and ski towns are changing. Many are blaming Vail.

www.vermontpublic.org

Maybe Stowe but okemo or mount snow not so much to change.

 

[eatskisleep]

But..it remained one of the best mtns in the east.

The terrain is still just as good!

 

[thetrailboss]

I mean sure, Walmart could take it over and it would still be the best combination of natural snow and terrain in the East.

But the experience absolutely sucks compared to what it once was.

The place used to ooze ski bum town like no other place in the East. Yes, they always had some outside wealth, but that demographic didn't dominate the vibe. Now? The vibe is gold plated bidets that shoot champagne up people's asses that think water isn't good enough.

"My EPIC gold plated bidet is larger than yours!"

 

[kingslug]

I roll with the changes...what else can you do.
Although whats going on at pc and even snowbird has steered me to Alta.
Ill still hit all the mtns...but I think Alta has changed the least. Crowds...yeah..but that is everywhere.

 

[deadheadskier]

Some do. For the most part, I roll on past when I no longer find the same joy with something I once did.

And you somewhat did too Slug. First you added Sugarbush to try and escape Stowe crowds IIRC, then you moved to Utah.

 

[thetrailboss]

Holiday skiers at Park City face delays, long lines amid ski patrol union strike

Despite early promises that a ski patrol union strike would not impact resort operations, holiday skiers say they were disappointed to find long lines, delays and limited lift availability the past few days.

www.ksl.com

 

[snoseek]

When it snows you all are sleeping on Sundance imo.

 

[ThatGuy]

When it snows you all are sleeping on Sundance imo.

The only true “locals” mountain left in the Wasatch

 

[kingslug]

Have to try it

 

[BenedictGomez]

When it snows you all are sleeping on Sundance imo.

When I moved here last year I legitimately considered getting a season pass there instead of PCMR, but ultimately, it seemed silly given the far superior terrain, more snow, and vastness of Park City. But I really do love that place. It's like if you took Platty & gave it an elevation of 8,000 feet. I think next season I'll get the family S-cards just so we can go a few times, $69 Sundays is pretty reasonable these days.

 

[snoseek]

When I moved here last year I legitimately considered getting a season pass there instead of PCMR, but ultimately, it seemed silly given the far superior terrain, more snow, and vastness of Park City. But I really do love that place. It's like if you took Platty & gave it an elevation of 8,000 feet. I think next season I'll get the family S-cards just so we can go a few times, $69 Sundays is pretty reasonable these days.

It has some fun steep stuff you can traverse to. Probably the most dramatic views around.

 

[thetrailboss]

It has some fun steep stuff you can traverse to. Probably the most dramatic views around.

True. But low elevation = not as much snow and even rain in ski season.

 

[snoseek]

True. But low elevation = not as much snow and even rain in ski season.

It's not the best for a pass but maybe escape when the storms come in cold. I bought my days there via liftopia right before they went away.

 

[thetrailboss]

It's not the best for a pass but maybe escape when the storms come in cold. I bought my days there via liftopia right before they went away.

FWIW I like Sundance a lot. I have been in good and bad snow years. It has a lot of nice expert terrain. I have not been back in a while--pre HSQ days.

I see on LiftBlog that they are going to replace Flathead with a new lift in 2026.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Probably the most dramatic views around.

Agreed. The view to Deer Creek from Bishop's Bowl is one, and another's being right under Timp at the top is just imposing. Bear Claw cabin's probably my favorite place to eat too in terms of views (360), and how it's just really cool & rustic (my #2 for eating with views would be the Summit at Snowbird).

 

[KustyTheKlown]

ruh-roh?

Vail Resorts, Inc. (NYSE:MTN) faces new demands from four ski patrol unions - TownLift, Park City News

Park City Ski Patrol's strike is gaining support as industry unions condemn Vail Resorts’ tactics

townlift.com

 

[jaytrem]

FWIW I like Sundance a lot. I have been in good and bad snow years. It has a lot of nice expert terrain. I have not been back in a while--pre HSQ days.

I see on LiftBlog that they are going to replace Flathead with a new lift in 2026.

New lift will be munch longer. Bottom of Wildwood to the top of Red's. Will definitely change how the place skis and adds more terrain.

Act 2 | New High-Speed Lift and Terrain Expansion

act2.sundanceresort.com

 

[jaytrem]

It's not the best for a pass but maybe escape when the storms come in cold. I bought my days there via liftopia right before they went away.

Looks like you can still buy tickets for about 20 different places on Liftopia. Thank goodness, since I still have a $22.23 credit with them!

 

[1dog]

Vail only took over in 2017? The toothpaste was already out of the tube by the time they got their dirty mitts on it. I would say AIG at least had left the tube on the counter so folks could remember what once was. Vail just finished the job and swiped it off the counter into the trash to remove all signs of the past.

For the town of Stowe, the biggest cultural change was for sure 9/11. I actually had my moving away party 9/10/01. We partied all night at Elmore Mountain State Park and woke up hearing about the planes crashing into the towers on the radio while eating eggs around the campfire. I moved out of state 9/12. Left VT for 3 years and only visited minimally until I moved back in 2004.

While away all of my friends would talk about how the town was being taken over by wealthy Wall Street families and real estate was going bananas because of it. That was basically the start of the remote work movement when it was only the very wealthy who could afford the technologies to make remote work possible or more importantly the political capital at their jobs to tell their employees they would be working away from the cities if their companies wanted to keep them. When I got back to town, all of the rusted out Saabs and Subarus you would see around town were replaced by Range Rovers and Mercedes. I imagine ski bums from the 90s in Park City, Aspen, Jackson Hole etc, have similar stories.

Thats a great recap DHS. I just sold my last rusted out Saab 900 a month ago. I recall Summit Ventures purchased Sugarbush 0n 9/10/01 if memory is correct.

 

[1dog]

Vermont ski culture and ski towns are changing. Many are blaming Vail.​

How has Vail’s acquisition of Vermont ski areas impacted locals?

Vermont ski culture and ski towns are changing. Many are blaming Vail.

www.vermontpublic.org

Immediate take away quotes:

The cost of insurance went way up.

I think the skiers outgrew the rope tows because of their equipment and their interest.

liability insurance increased again and again and again, and they couldn't afford it. They couldn't afford their operations.

I could see it personally — the crowds that you didn't see before, the number of people, the demographic of folks who weren't typically your frequent flyers and skiers at Stowe Mountain Resort.

LAst public company that folded after promise of stock price growth was ASC I thought? When one invests in weather-dependent businesses, not a lot of control- so they come up with pre-season purchase of passes. How to manage the cash is always the sign of wins vs. losses. Another line was that those smaller areas were never really profitable - I'm sure that's correct. Weather. So the question is, how does a 40-resort owner make money to stay alive and keep investors happy? Wasn't it always real estate? Due to artificially low cost of money for 15 years, its out of reach for all except the wealthy.

If liability was reduced, personal responsibility embraced, and more reasons to keep the kids from moving out of state after high school - they leave in droves - maybe it becomes more balanced. That was my take away - the balance is completely gone between locals, small businesses, tourists, and affordability.