Is there a mountain you wouldn't ski for free?

[JimG.]

I wonder if this thread would have spanned 6 pages in less than 24 hours if it was the middle of the ski season....

No, because I would be off skiing instead of posting in here and driving everyone crazy!

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Free? Can't think of a place...

I dunno, I get maybe 5 chances to ski a year, if it was a freebie, I don't think I'd turn it down, even if it meant getting their early, skiing the morning and bailing. Still got a chance to ski. And they don't come as frequently as I'd like them to.

 

[dmc]

No, because I would be off skiing instead of posting in here and driving everyone crazy!

Soon we'll be driving each other crazy with skis on...

 

[andyzee]

I wonder if this thread would have spanned 6 pages in less than 24 hours if it was the middle of the ski season....

I only see 4 pages?

 

[ctenidae]

I only see 4 pages?

There are five lights.

 

[andyzee]

Four pages:

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

As shown by these negative threads generating tons of posts...

DMC, I get you and admire your passion for Hunter. I personally hope it thrives and grows.
I just don't think every thread can be happy, happy, joy, joy, and still have a meaningful discussion. If someone who skied Hunter 10 years ago puts the place down, it's an opportunity for you to show him for the no nothing he is and set the record straight. When that happens I think the bad mouther is more helpful then harmful to Hunter.

 

[loafer89]

Well for me personally - living and investing in a town that has a much maligned ski area and has suffered from that stigma.. I am INDEED promoting Hunter... But more from the angle of smashing the old stigmas so people will once again come up and ski and enjoy themselves in this funky little mountain town...

We need the mountain and all the people that come here... The mountain doesn't really need us.. But we need it...

If a person unfairly "disses" a ski area that's not cool.. Cause many ski areas have local economies attatched to them... And I know many business people up here that are on the brink of losing their businesses... We need everyone we can get right now.. And don't need people dragging up old negativity to make themselves look like they are better skiers...

I personally love Hunter and skiing in the Catskills and I will really miss skiing in New York now that I will be moving much further away from them. Hopefully I will be able to at least get back to Belleayre and ride the new HSQ this season.

 

[riverc0il]

regarding the thread page numbers, you can set how many posts per page you view in the UserCP. for example, i only have two pages for this thread. gotta love the customizability!

 

[andyzee]

regarding the thread page numbers, you can set how many posts per page you view in the UserCP. for example, i only have two pages for this thread. gotta love the customizability!

Oops, forgot I had customized that, thanks! Now back to the regularly scheduled mountain bashing.:smash:

 

[RISkier]

I'm a scientist. I'm often annoyed and irritated by the structure and conventions that define what questions are appropriate. For example, we had to revise a manuscript (they always have to be revised) and one of the revisions was that the term "binge drinking" was no longer considered politically correct. I think we're going in the same direction when we decide it's inappropriate to criticize ski areas. One of the reasons I read ski forums is to gain insight into different areas. Earlier in this thread I criticized Okemo. I'm sure we'd probably have had a fun time at Okemo on a quiet week day. From what I've read on different forums, I thought it would be very busy. It was, IMO, a complete mad house. Okemo doesn't really need my business on weekends to surviive. There are other areas that we've kind of avoided because of the same reputation. Conversely, I've read almost nothing but positive things about some other areas that I'd really like to visit. Information, whether positive or negative, is good. Clearly, when we're dealing with folks' subjective opinions about the relative merits of different areas we need to sift through the noise to find the signal. Statements like "______ really sucks (or is the best area in New Engleand)" don't provide much signal with some explanation as to the reviewers skills and preferences, and what they liked or didn't like about the area.

 

[loafer89]

I'm a scientist. I'm often annoyed and irritated by the structure and conventions that define what questions are appropriate. For example, we had to revise a manuscript (they always have to be revised) and one of the revisions was that the term "binge drinking" was no longer considered politically correct. I think we're going in the same direction when we decide it's inappropriate to criticize ski areas. One of the reasons I read ski forums is to gain insight into different areas. Earlier in this thread I criticized Okemo. I'm sure we'd probably have had a fun time at Okemo on a quiet week day. From what I've read on different forums, I thought it would be very busy. It was, IMO, a complete mad house. Okemo doesn't really need my business on weekends to surviive. There are other areas that we've kind of avoided because of the same reputation. Conversely, I've read almost nothing but positive things about some other areas that I'd really like to visit. Information, whether positive or negative, is good. Clearly, when we're dealing with folks' subjective opinions about the relative merits of different areas we need to sift through the noise to find the signal. Statements like "______ really sucks (or is the best area in New Engleand)" don't provide much signal with some explanation as to the reviewers skills and preferences, and what they liked or didn't like about the area.

That sounds fair enough so here are my reasons for not wanting to ski these places for free again:

Alpine Mountain - Slow as molasses chairlifts for short trails with no variety.

Mountain Creek - A gondola services the best part of the mountain, as much as I like the terrain that it services, taking off your ski's for a 2 minute run on 1,000' of vertical is just plain stupid. The mountain seems to blow snow for the halfpipe and leave skiing as a sideshow with some of the most horrific crowding I have ever seen.

Campgaw - Ancient chairlifts, with lackluster snowmaking and a very short season (nice views of Manhattan though)

Shawnee - Awful snowmaking and grooming with rickety chairlifts and flat terrain.

Powder Ridge - Terrible management with poor snowmaking, ancient scary looking lifts and no lift maze control. On January 2nd 2005 my son was not able to get off of the double chair with me riding next to him in time and he went around the bullwheel and fell into the dirt/mud as the lift operator was too busy reading his magazine to notice what was going on.:angry:

Thunder Ridge - Lackluster snowmaking ( this mountain is often snowless when we drive past it on our way to Mohawk) and the area has a flat saddle in the middle of the mountain.

Sterling Forest - out of business, but it had chairlifts in really poor condition (read really rusty) with splintered wooden seats, very poor snowmaking and dilapidated facilities.

Big Squaw - Currently I would not ski this area again in it's current state as the lifts where not in good shape as is apparent with the summit chair accident. I really like the mountain, but it needs some $$$$ invested into it to make me want to come back.

 

[dmc]

I'm a scientist. I'm often annoyed and irritated by the structure and conventions that define what questions are appropriate. For example, we had to revise a manuscript (they always have to be revised) and one of the revisions was that the term "binge drinking" was no longer considered politically correct. I think we're going in the same direction when we decide it's inappropriate to criticize ski areas.

It's OK to criticize a ski area... But you should add context so people have something to measure it by... I'm sure that science allows context when determining an answer to a question thats shrouded with perspective.

I ask people to re-approach things that may have been bad in a previous context to see if they are indeed still that way.. It's only fair..

 

[RISkier]

It's OK to criticize a ski area... But you should add context so people have something to measure it by... I'm sure that science allows context when determining an answer to a question thats shrouded with perspective.

I ask people to re-approach things that may have been bad in a previous context to see if they are indeed still that way.. It's only fair..

Absolutely! Context is very important. An expert skier who says they don't like the terrain at ______ because it's too bland is crucial -- might be a great place for an intermediate looking for grroomed cruising terrain. It's part of the point I was trying to make. A good review requires that the reviewer states their skills and preferences, and then evaluates the area in that framework. There are lots of folks on this forum that are very skilled skiers/boarders. Many ski lots of back country. For them, the terrain at a place like Bretton Woods SUCKS. Yet a place like Bretton Woods can have excellent terrain for beginners and lower intermediates. My wife and I absolutely loved BW the first couple of years we skied. To some extent we feel we've outgrown it. That doesn't make it good or bad. It makes it good or bad depending on what someone wants. So I think that without some context, reviews are not very useful.

 

[NYDrew]

Keystone Colorado...............I've been once and would never go again!

never been out west....damn I would like to be able to say something like that

 

[dmc]

Absolutely! Context is very important. An expert skier who says they don't like the terrain at ______ because it's too bland is crucial -- might be a great place for an intermediate looking for grroomed cruising terrain. It's part of the point I was trying to make. A good review requires that the reviewer states their skills and preferences, and then evaluates the area in that framework. There are lots of folks on this forum that are very skilled skiers/boarders. Many ski lots of back country. For them, the terrain at a place like Bretton Woods SUCKS. Yet a place like Bretton Woods can have excellent terrain for beginners and lower intermediates. My wife and I absolutely loved BW the first couple of years we skied. To some extent we feel we've outgrown it. That doesn't make it good or bad. It makes it good or bad depending on what someone wants. So I think that without some context, reviews are not very useful.

Also take into to conseration the context of time and how methods and technology have changed... A liftline in the 1980's on a double chair probably isn't as bad now with HSQs and new ideas of queues, etc..
Bretton Woods is a great cruiser area but I prefer the skiing accross tha valley

 

[Greg]

You know doug, we've clashed on some things in the past, but I do feel your desire to reverse Hunter's stigma is comendable. It definitely is a kick-ass hill and I haven't found it to be all that much more crowded than any other similar ski area like Jiminy or Mount Snow. I've even skied Belt Parkway and survived. I like Hunter and will try to get out there at least once a season.

As far as criticism, I will reiterate, I think it's healthy. I would never try to suppress anyone's opinion provided it's conveyed in a civil manner; and I don't think anyone is trying to do that. It may very well be that ski areas find some value in criticism on forums like this. It's sort of an infomal source they can use to evaluate what they are doing wrong, and right.

 

[Bumpsis]

I'd have to frame my answer to the original question here in terms of what else would I be doing with the time that otherwise would be given to the free skiing at a given area.
My time that I can spend outdoors is rather limited, so I'd like to make it as optimal as possible.

There are quite a few ski areas that I just would not ski even if I got paid to do it.
Bretton Woods would be one. This past season I ventured there just out of curiosity and I was just bored to tears. Now I know I would have a better time hitting their XC trails or taking a winter hike up Mt. Washington.

Skiing has lost a lot of its luster for me so unless there is a chance that the experience will be optimal (lots of wiggle room in this definition), I just don't bother. I'd rather take a chance at hitting a resort out west for a few days than sking boring terrain with crappy snow and that's crowded to boot.

 

[loafer89]

Also take into to conseration the context of time and how methods and technology have changed... A liftline in the 1980's on a double chair probably isn't as bad now with HSQs and new ideas of queues, etc..
Bretton Woods is a great cruiser area but I prefer the skiing accross tha valley

I liftline before the 1987 HSQ was horrible, I know I waited in quite a few. Hunter West still has bad liftlines on ocassion but for amountain located so close to New York City it really is not that terribly overcrowded for the most part and the terrain and snowmaking are hard to beat.

 

[andyzee]

I'd have to frame my answer to the original question here in terms of what else would I be doing with the time that otherwise would be given to the free skiing at a given area.
My time that I can spend outdoors is rather limited, so I'd like to make it as optimal as possible.

There are quite a few ski areas that I just would not ski even if I got paid to do it.
Bretton Woods would be one. This past season I ventured there just out of curiosity and I was just bored to tears. Now I know I would have a better time hitting their XC trails or taking a winter hike up Mt. Washington.

Skiing has lost a lot of its luster for me so unless there is a chance that the experience will be optimal (lots of wiggle room in this definition), I just don't bother. I'd rather take a chance at hitting a resort out west for a few days than sking boring terrain with crappy snow and that's crowded to boot.

I hope I never get to that point. This is only going to be my 6th season of skiing and for now just about every day is exciting. Wjem conditions are really bad, and I've skied in some bad ones, I'll just give it up for the day, but usually still apreciate being out.