Laziness has made manual transmissions a relic.
I've driven some very slick modern ATs in expensive European and Japanese luxury cars. Even in their manual modes they simply don't perform as well as a traditional MT.
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SUV for carrying skis
- Thread starter yeggous
- Start date
Laziness has made manual transmissions a relic.
I've driven some very slick modern ATs in expensive European and Japanese luxury cars. Even in their manual modes they simply don't perform as well as a traditional MT.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Really???? There is no way your manual transmission will outperform an automatic transmission with traction control in the snow.
Working in the industry, I can tell you that there is truth to only half of this. Yes, cars are going to become obsolete increasingly quickly. The industry recognizes that it has fallen way behind a lot of others in connected technology. It is also rapidly slingshotting to catch up. We've entered a new period of rapidly advancing electronics and automation of vehicles.
At the same time all of this computing power has resulted in vehicles that last longer than ever. Engineers have access to complicate computer control systems that reduce stress on mechanic parts. Advances in materials have made parts more durable and resistant to corrosion.
Much like you upgrade your laptop and phone, you're going to replace your car far before it reaches the end of its mechanically useful life.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
You're starting to sound like the people who insist that vinyl records produce the most pure sound.
B.S.
All things being equal - tires, AWD/FWD, HP - the MT wins with a good driver.
Ever watch winter rally car racing? What are the vast majority of them driving? Why do most Jeep Heads who do a lot of off roading still use manuals?
More control over the vehicle
Puck it
Well-known member
Not true. F1, Rally and Indy cars are all clutchless now. 4X4 yes.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Even if we forget that what you say is false, you keep ignoring the fact that my automatic transmission has a manual mode. It's got paddles like... you know... Subaru uses in its P2000 WRC. And just like Hyundai, Ford, Volkswagen, Citroen, and others use in their rally cars as well.
So using your own criteria of "look what rally car drivers do!", you lose.
Sarcasm aside, a computer can shift better than you can. It's just a fact. Rally racers know that paddle shifters are much more quick and responsive than a stick. This is why they have embraced them. Another benefit is that your hands stay on the wheel, giving you better control over steering.
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Scruffy
Active member
I hope you're wrong about that, but we'll have to see. Cars today vastly outlast their predecessors in just about every way. In the 1960's if you got 100000 miles on an engine before it started burning oil and needed rebuilding, you were lucky. Auto Trannys needed rebuilding constantly. In the late 1970's, cars rusted out after one year. Today, if you don't get at least 300000 miles out of a car, it's a lemon, or you didn't take care of it.
A lot of newer vehicles are getting lighter because of aluminum ( F-150 frame) or carbon fiber (expensive Euro cars and corvette ), hopefully some of this will trickle down to every day cars.
I agree with you, that with used cars, some repairs may be expensive as costly electronic features fail. And, I agree that some pick-up trucks, esp in the half ton category, are not built as tough as your grandfather's PU, in terms of frame strength and suspension. But, if people are paying north of 30Gs for an average ride, they better damn well last or that auto company will feel the wrath from consumers the Big 3 felt in the 1980s-2000s - run away fast with your $$$s to the company that builds quality.
I've used paddle shifters before in an Lexus IS350, I've owned an Audi A6 with manual mode. Both were good, but not as good as traditional.
That's all I'll say on this. I've gone round and around this topic all I care for numerous times before.
End of the day, drive what makes you happy and you feel safest driving.
That's all I'll say on this. I've gone round and around this topic all I care for numerous times before.
End of the day, drive what makes you happy and you feel safest driving.
Scruffy
Active member
I loved shifting when I had sports cars or muscle cars. Now, the autos are so good, even in trucks, that the towing capacity is usually higher for the same truck equipped with an auto over a manual. Big tractors ( eighteen wheelers ) use auto trannys now too.
Puck it
Well-known member
Not saying anything about preference. Sequential trannys are just faster shifting then the MT.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Bingo. That faster shifting gives you much greater control. That is why rally car drivers use them - and I think someone here said that rally car drivers are all about having maximum control over their car.
This is why my automatic transmission with traction control and a manual paddle-shift option is better in the snow.
I can appreciate that some people prefer a stick shift in the same way that some people prefer listening to vinyl records. But it's merely that, a personal preference. Preference alone does not equal better.
I already conceded they are faster.
Smellytele
Well-known member
This is not me. While I may buy a new car now and then I drive them to their death. My last 4 vehicles were a new truck that after 2 transmissions and an engine it was laid to rest. Next My wife had a new minivan that was traded in for "cash for clunkers" - may it rust in peace. At the same time I also had a new suv that may have continued its life with a new transmission and 4k of other repairs it needed when it was traded in for 1k. Lastly I had a used ranger that I drove for almost 300k before I got rid of it. wife's Traverse now has 155k on it and still will be driven for at least 3 years.
I believe that vehicles last longer now than they did in the 70's and 80's. Rarely did people put 100k let alone 150k on a vehicle back then. did some yes but rarely.
bigbog
Active member
Putting some on the roof(in either box or rack) will save space inside..y/n?
gmcunni
Active member
fewer and fewer of those around too
VTKilarney
Well-known member
I'd love to be one of those people that keeps a car until 300,000 miles on the odometer. But my biggest fear is breaking down on a frigid night in the middle of nowhere. That's a valid fear living in a rural area where cell phone coverage is spotty. I wouldn't mind if it was just me, but with my wife and children in the car it's another story. I need to learn to be less worried about breaking down.
I also need to drive cars that are affordable to repair. My Audi did not fall into that category, which is why my last two vehicles have been American brands. A friend of mine had to replace the shocks on his Mercedes - at a cost of $1,500 per shock.
I also need to drive cars that are affordable to repair. My Audi did not fall into that category, which is why my last two vehicles have been American brands. A friend of mine had to replace the shocks on his Mercedes - at a cost of $1,500 per shock.
Wait, you get car repairs for $138? I wish. For me there is big value in knowing my car is not going to break down. With all the driving I do, I really, really do not want to deal with being stranded far from home.
The automotive industry that my grandfather knew is dead. My father (now a grandfather) does not really understand how I work for car companies.
NPR had a decent example of this on air today:
http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2016/01/05/ces-2016-car-tech
hopefully I am being over dramatic.
I have a 3 year old iphone that I am only upgrading because I don't want to fix the screen again, i hate the fact that my cell phone has become a fashion accessory that "needs" to be updated every year. I hate updating things that work for me.
I find it funny with everyone worried about older cars, I've never owned a vehicle with less than 100,000 miles or less than 10 years old.
However I've also had several break downs in the middle of nowhere. I once drove 300 miles, stopping every 15 minutes (or when my temp gauge started to rise) to fill up my radiator. I had to stop every hour to fill up the jugs of water. That was a long night.
I currently have a 2002 Tacoma that I would love to keep forever, however rust will eventually kill the body (the frame has already been replaced by Toyota).
I am also completely biased and feel that the pinnacle of vehicle reliability is late 80's - late 90's japenese (specifically toyota) vehicles.
I have a 3 year old iphone that I am only upgrading because I don't want to fix the screen again, i hate the fact that my cell phone has become a fashion accessory that "needs" to be updated every year. I hate updating things that work for me.
I find it funny with everyone worried about older cars, I've never owned a vehicle with less than 100,000 miles or less than 10 years old.
However I've also had several break downs in the middle of nowhere. I once drove 300 miles, stopping every 15 minutes (or when my temp gauge started to rise) to fill up my radiator. I had to stop every hour to fill up the jugs of water. That was a long night.
I currently have a 2002 Tacoma that I would love to keep forever, however rust will eventually kill the body (the frame has already been replaced by Toyota).
I am also completely biased and feel that the pinnacle of vehicle reliability is late 80's - late 90's japenese (specifically toyota) vehicles.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Exactly. It's either all in people's heads or it's a personal preference. Or it's the sort of person who is a "technology hater", like my brother who only got a cell phone 2 years ago, and it was already outdated when he bought it.
Call me a denier. The computer will make those adjustments better.
First time I used paddle shifters was on a rental car in Ireland circa 2005. Mind = blown. I thought it was fun.
This is undoubtedly true. A car with 100k on it was a source of pride when I was a kid, now it's a lemon if you cant hit 100k. I just turned over 140,000 on my Envoy this weekend on the way back from FL. I plan on keeping it 2 to 3 more years, ~175,000 I'd guess.
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