How is Belleayre operating minus

[Bandit2941]

Really? Since when? I am not being a dink, just curious. I was a lifty for a winter about 10 years ago while in college and it was me at the the bottom and local kid at the top. Just the two of us. On the more popular lifts you might get three or 4 lifties at the bottom and 1 or 2 at the top. From time to time a maintance guy would stop by, the lifts manger might stop by, etc. I don't ever recall a dedicated "lift operator" at each lift....or even at a lift.....could be wrong, I drank quite a bit back then.

I'm not sure how long it's been that way at Belleayre but that's how it is now, especially at the high speed quad as that thing is finicky....

 

[Tin Woodsman]

There aren't a great deal of hard numbers out there, but I did find this bit of information on North Carolina's ski industry, which you could compare decently to Belleayre.

For 671,544 skier visits, they had 96 full time employees. Completely ignoring the greater amount of lodging and other facilities at the NC areas overall compared to Belleayre...that comes up with 25 full time employees if you cut it down to the same level of skier visits. And Belleayre previously had 58 full timers.

It's actually worse than that, b/c your analysis doesn't take into account the fact that there are a certain number of full time positions (e.g. department heads) at any given ski resort that are "fixed" irrespective of how large they are. There's only one mtn ops manager at Vail and only one at Cattaloochee, even though the former is many times larger in terms of lifts, terrain and skier visits. Given that background, it's clear that Bell is wildly over-staffed to a degree that few can truly contemplate.

 

[MarkC]

yeah - state pays for liability insurance, workman's comp and group health insurance..

And the employees are funded by the state.. thus the layoffs.

And they also don't pay property tax, sales tax(sales and purchases), fuel taxes, etc...

Not to mention that all of their vehicles are bought and maintained by the DOT.

 

[MarkC]

How many full time year round employees does a mountain like Stow have? I guarantee that it is less than the amount that were laid off at Belleayre.

 

[millerm277]

How many full time year round employees does a mountain like Stow have? I guarantee that it is less than the amount that were laid off at Belleayre.

There aren't a great deal of hard numbers out there, but I did find this bit of information on North Carolina's ski industry, which you could compare decently to Belleayre.

For 671,544 skier visits, they had 96 full time employees. Completely ignoring the greater amount of lodging and other facilities at the NC areas overall compared to Belleayre...that comes up with 25 full time employees if you cut it down to the same level of skier visits. And Belleayre previously had 58 full timers.

 

[tjf67]

It's actually worse than that, b/c your analysis doesn't take into account the fact that there are a certain number of full time positions (e.g. department heads) at any given ski resort that are "fixed" irrespective of how large they are. There's only one mtn ops manager at Vail and only one at Cattaloochee, even though the former is many times larger in terms of lifts, terrain and skier visits. Given that background, it's clear that Bell is wildly over-staffed to a degree that few can truly contemplate.

In all fairness a lot of the workers from Bell are diverted to state parks during the summer. These people were not useless. To many sure, now get rid of some of the upper level managers at bell that are pulling a salary of 150k and retire on 60% pay after 30 years with full benes.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

In all fairness a lot of the workers from Bell are diverted to state parks during the summer. These people were not useless. To many sure, now get rid of some of the upper level managers at bell that are pulling a salary of 150k and retire on 60% pay after 30 years with full benes.

Can't disagree with you there. Can't imagine working from 25 to 55, getting to retire making more than many than most of those who pay your nest egg. On top of that many can double dip if they play it right. Unfortunately I think many (including myself from time to time) crap on the lower level workers becuase of things like you mentioned about upper management. On top of that most of those pensions can't be funded at there current rate, at least in many states. They need to do away with the pension system and slowly move towards employee retirement plans like a 401k. This is a case where Unions have out lived their usefullness....of course the Union bosses and their little tag alongs have their pensions funded. So corrupt.

 

[skidbump]

In all fairness a lot of the workers from Bell are diverted to state parks during the summer. These people were not useless. To many sure, now get rid of some of the upper level managers at bell that are pulling a salary of 150k and retire on 60% pay after 30 years with full benes.

Top pay is 93k and he has more than earned it.

 

[deadheadskier]

you get to keep your 93K a year job when managing an area that posted a 1M operating loss the year prior?

sweet sign me up

 

[threecy]

Top pay is 93k and he has more than earned it.

That's a heck of a lot more than a lot of private sector ski area executives make!

 

[skidbump]

That's a heck of a lot more than a lot of private sector ski area executives make!

Prove it

 

[mondeo]

you get to keep your 93K a year job when managing an area that posted a 1M operating loss the year prior?

sweet sign me up

Really. I mean, a competent manager wouldn't have nearly as many full year employees. He should get on that.

 

[tjf67]

Prove it

Can you prove the top guy/gal only makes 93k per year? I think that number is wrong.

 

[skidbump]

you get to keep your 93K a year job when managing an area that posted a 1M operating loss the year prior?

sweet sign me up

Believe that was mostly due to improvements

He has gone from 75000 skier visits to 175000 skier visits..Thats one reason he has the job.

Cant find financials from prev yrs to say what average profit/loss was.

 

[skidbump]

Can you prove the top guy/gal only makes 93k per year? I think that number is wrong.

search it.. its public 93.7 a yr

 

[skidbump]

search it.. its public 93.7 a yr

tony lanza-superintendent at BELLEAYRE

 

[threecy]

Prove it

Says the person who earlier posted the baseless Belleayre is closing rumor.

 

[o3jeff]

Believe that was mostly due to improvements

He has gone from 75000 skier visits to 175000 skier visits..Thats one reason he has the job.

Cant find financials from prev yrs to say what average profit/loss was.

Wow thats great, improved skier visit by 100k but can't turn a profit for the area.

 

[threecy]

Wow thats great, improved skier visit by 100k but can't turn a profit for the area.

How much was spent during that time? The state has spent millions of dollars on three brand new quad chairlifts in the past 12 years or so.

 

[deadheadskier]

Believe that was mostly due to improvements

He has gone from 75000 skier visits to 175000 skier visits..Thats one reason he has the job.

Cant find financials from prev yrs to say what average profit/loss was.

The figure I saw was for 'operating loss'. Capital expenditures are usually separate from operational expenditures.